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Post by wilsonthenarc on May 10, 2017 21:21:18 GMT
Index of Things to Consider Fixing~ The Folding Fortress What's the issue here? I have never had someone call this out as broken?
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2017 21:40:58 GMT
I do remember there being gripes about being able to deploy your entire army in there? or something like that. Never seen it happen, never even seen the thing taken.
I just looked it up: apparently unsavory characters build their towers like 20' tall (REAL LIFE MEASUREMENTS) and stick their entire army in it. GW never clarified the size of the tower and so...well...cheesers gonna cheese.
EDIT: To be honest if you're running up against people doing this I would kindly tell them that if they want to continue playing 8th with you then they need to stop being d*ckholes.
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Post by frozenfood on May 11, 2017 5:52:50 GMT
Just my opinion: If you ban FOOT OF GORK We only ban dispel scrolls and double frostchickens/steamtanks. We leave that spell in because...well it's the game and because most of the other spells suck. I had a lvl 2 orc shaman with the most boring spells, at least a lvl 4 can do something. But if we are talking about spells that are gamebreaking, this one spell has killed more than Shades, Dwellers or even the Dreaded Thirteenth. Seven stomps against Skaven! Bam, bam, bam, BAM, BAM, BAM, B A MMMM. And the miscast with the template around him. Wonderful moment...
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Post by gjnoronh on May 11, 2017 12:54:53 GMT
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Post by pendrake on May 11, 2017 19:57:37 GMT
Index of Things to Consider Fixing~ The Folding Fortress What's the issue here? I have never had someone call this out as broken? It is the issue Ryryak explains: I do remember there being gripes about being able to deploy your entire army in there? or something like that. Never seen it happen, never even seen the thing taken. I just looked it up: apparently unsavory characters build their towers like 20' tall (REAL LIFE MEASUREMENTS) and stick their entire army in it. GW never clarified the size of the tower and so.... ...quite a few tournament organizers DID IT FOR THEM. It was usually a matter of how many High Elf Archers (50? 100?) can be stuffed into a fortress tower standing right at the center of the board. (Apparently, somebody managed that exploit once...) thereafter I started seeing "clarifications" on the point. I don't think anybody ever created a tower taller than the table... ...ryryak exaggerates, a little. But it seemed like Fozziebear's (Fozzdirk? Fizzbin?) Folding Fortress needs a small rewrite, so that was why I stuck it in the index. A careful excising of a few words is all.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 20:25:12 GMT
I'd be happy to elaborate on it if you feel it's needed. Personally I feel that the GW tower fits the idea perfectly, it's what...6"x6" and 3 stories high? Perfect tower.
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Post by pendrake on May 11, 2017 20:25:20 GMT
The Folding Fortress was 100pts?
The questions are then: how many high-efficiency shooters (Jezzail Teams, say?) like Dwarf handgunners, Elves, etc. can be deployed covering a large open area from serious cover....for 100 points..?
And what is a better way to set a limit instead of basing off the height of a model?
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Post by gjnoronh on May 11, 2017 20:51:41 GMT
I think you could just limit the number of wounds/points that can go in. I don't know where you would draw the line (actually for scaling you would do it based on game size.) The issue wasn't usually the shooting. People would drop a bunch of casters and their leadership nodes into a very large unit in the fortress. The way the shooting at buildings and building assault rules work it's very hard to do much damage to the unit. You can almost always assign the damage to the cheap infantry (no worries on a look out sir) and even if you get assaulted out of the building you are just formed up (unbroken) behind the tower.
Puts most of your points and most of your damage dealing into an immune to being broken in combat, protected against shooting bundle. Surround it with a few throw away units to delay assaults. It doesn't win games with scenarios by and large but it does make it hard to give up VP's.
That being said - I think in general building rules aren't entirely loved (or always understood) in 8th. There are some shenanigans you can do. I personally love taking a building against Brettonians and reminding my opponent his cav has to dismount to assault me.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on May 12, 2017 1:39:57 GMT
pendrake, I just have to say it again - I LOVE YOUR AVATAR Fish
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Post by Horace on May 12, 2017 12:13:24 GMT
We always just use buildings as simple scenery. The occupying building rules always seemed completely unsatisfactory in general
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Post by pendrake on May 12, 2017 14:16:29 GMT
We always just use buildings as simple scenery. The occupying building rules always seemed completely unsatisfactory in general I added the buildings rules to the checklist.
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Post by dannytee on May 13, 2017 17:59:35 GMT
The more I look at peoples gripes with magic though the more I realize people just need to take smaller units if it's bothering them. Magic is there to balance out large unit sizes. A Dwellers below affecting a unit of 100 is MUCH more effective than it being cast at a unit of 30. I strongly agree with this. The mega hit every model in target unit spells are most effective against huge units. Against a small unit they are not a big deal. It is the counter to a unit of 50 that would otherwise be impossible to take care of. And this is coming from a guy who usually plays dwarves and doesn't have access to magic.
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Post by frozenfood on May 14, 2017 7:40:17 GMT
I remember an epic game where my orcs ignored fiery convocation for the last two rounds. They kept dying but enough of them made it into combat and slaughtered the enemy. Actually the orcs were just the delivery system for the characters
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Post by pendrake on May 14, 2017 9:39:46 GMT
pendrake, I just have to say it again - I LOVE YOUR AVATAR Fish Umm. Thanks. It sorta looks like it is straight out of Boutell's heraldry.
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Post by jamierk on Sept 23, 2021 23:24:03 GMT
I played many an 8th ed tournament, and the only things i ever found 'un-fun' about game ending mechanics (cannons, spells etc) was when there was little to no mitigation or interaction with the game mechanic:
1. Game ending spells: No spell should deny a ward save. Fixes most game ending spells to some level 2. Even IF cast spells should be able to be dispelled by IF dispel or scroll. Defensive player can interact with the dice. 3. Cannons shouldn't be lasers, should scatter: like every other mechanic in the game, dice are now involved much more appropriately 4. Cannons shouldn't hit both rider and mount: at least 2 cannons required to kill a large ridden monster
Small but important changes.
Last point, don't take all the teeth out of the game. 9th age can often feel like two armies gumming each other to death slowly and makes for more balanced but much less memorable games.
Thanks Jamie
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