Toro_Blanco
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Nobody enjoys a good laugh more than I do.
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Post by Toro_Blanco on Aug 7, 2015 1:47:07 GMT
So, what are everyone's thoughts on keeping 8th (and possible revised 8th) rules and army lists separate from rules and revisions for the End Times units and such? I saw rules being worked on for incorporating Sigmarines into 8th battles, and personally I'm not crazy about it because I feel a LOT of what is going on in the End Times really doesn't fit the nature of 8th edition. I could go into the specifics of why, but my thinking is that there's no reason if some people like it we can't work on it, I'd just personally like to play and develop 8th without being stuck in an endless apocalyptic showdown with units that, to me, don't fit the armies and fluff we've grown to love.
So, what does everyone else think about it: having special units, fluff, and the existing GW End Times material folded into one big pile labeled "Optional End Times material for 8th" and working on core rules and updated overall army books for 8th/revised 8th?
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Post by phierlihy on Aug 7, 2015 2:12:57 GMT
I don't have any use for the End Times. With a 50% character load-out, I hardly see a point to having any restrictions at all. I played a few games of it and didn't enjoy them nearly as much as I did a regular game. Magic was so broken it was just crazy. Others may want to put in time and effort into such a project but at least in my area, the general response to the whole thing was negative. I don't know if that effort would be worth it or not.
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Toro_Blanco
New Member
Nobody enjoys a good laugh more than I do.
Posts: 18
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Post by Toro_Blanco on Aug 7, 2015 2:16:10 GMT
I'm not so much for developing it as much as I am saying "who else feels, if this stuff gets made at all, it shouldn't be a part of the 8th edition proper?". It sounds like you're on board at least with that. I had almost identical feelings about everything in End Times.
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Aug 7, 2015 2:33:05 GMT
In Flames of War there are early, middle, and late war eras that can be played in and the lists reflect the available formations and technology of the times. Maybe we just set it up that games are played during "end times" or "whatever name we come up with for before end times". Warhammer has a long history and we could certainly define a few "ages" or "eras" and limit those games a bit.
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Toro_Blanco
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Nobody enjoys a good laugh more than I do.
Posts: 18
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Post by Toro_Blanco on Aug 7, 2015 2:55:26 GMT
For now I think "End Times" and "Pre-End Times" would be enough. All we need at the moment is a way to distinguish between End Times games and material and vanilla 8th edition; if, as I'm hoping, we ever more the lore and storyline forward with fan additions then we could get into different names and eras, but that's sort of putting the cart before the horse.
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Post by KevinC on Aug 7, 2015 3:58:54 GMT
You can play in any time period you wish, that's a great thing about story telling in wargames. In Warhammer, you could do a battle that takes place during Vlad's initial Vampire Wars, or a battle between High Elves and Dwarfs during the War of the Beard, or when Malekith becomes the Pheonix King during the End Times. I think we don't need to worry about the time period people choose to play in.
I love the End Times books and setting, though it doesn't mean I need to play every Warhammer game set in the End Times.
Any expansions we make are merely options for players, nothing more, nothing less. So for example, the Stormhosts of Sigmar army list is certainly not for everyone. But players may choose to use it in their games if they wish.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Aug 7, 2015 12:13:32 GMT
I agree with Kevin. You can play any era you want, just like FOW. Remember that a large focus of this forum is on keeping the main rules more or less unchanged, hence the making of rules for the sigmarines and the ideas for alternate army lists and such.
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Post by mottdon on Aug 7, 2015 14:36:34 GMT
I'Be always looked at the End Times books as just another scenario that people can play or choose not to. Any other supplements that are developed here should be treated in the same manner.
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Post by Anton on Aug 8, 2015 6:19:40 GMT
I also agree with Kevin. There are literally thousands of years of Warhammer history to fight our battles in, End Times is just one more period.
I also love the End Times books and during our vacation in July my brothers and I decided to play through the scenarios one by one and it was great fun having so many scenarios to play, and with a good narrative as well. They weren't really balanced but not every battle has to be "fair".
As for the rules, I believe the new units should be universally permitted because you shouldn't ever stop anyone from playing with his/her new toys. The rest of the rules (Lore of Undeath, Chaos Ascendant, Magic of the End Times and so on) should only be used in the specific context of the End Times.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Aug 8, 2015 12:02:03 GMT
I treat pre-End-of-Times like Star Wars I, II, and III.
By that I mean the OG, Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi.
Post-End-of-Times hearkens to the 1999-2000 era 2nd Trilogy.
Essentially, JarJar Binks is the End of Times.
These movies happened.
The End Times happened.
But since it's fiction, I'll make it my fiction, and say all of my Warhammer battles are fought somewhere circa 1800-2500 Imperial reckoning. Not the stone ages, mind you. Just some of the most interesting years, fluff wise, that ever did happen.
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Post by KevinC on Aug 8, 2015 14:47:39 GMT
wilsonthenarc, exactly!
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Toro_Blanco
New Member
Nobody enjoys a good laugh more than I do.
Posts: 18
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Post by Toro_Blanco on Aug 8, 2015 15:07:58 GMT
I also agree with Kevin. There are literally thousands of years of Warhammer history to fight our battles in, End Times is just one more period. I also love the End Times books and during our vacation in July my brothers and I decided to play through the scenarios one by one and it was great fun having so many scenarios to play, and with a good narrative as well. They weren't really balanced but not every battle has to be "fair". As for the rules, I believe the new units should be universally permitted because you shouldn't ever stop anyone from playing with his/her new toys. The rest of the rules (Lore of Undeath, Chaos Ascendant, Magic of the End Times and so on) should only be used in the specific context of the End Times. I've got to disagree: Sigmarines in an Old World army make no sense to me, and do not fit at all what I feel the concept of the Empire should be. If people want to play with them, that's fine. I just don't think I should be expected to embrace that particular part of the End Times nonsense. |
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Post by avatarofbugman on Aug 8, 2015 18:48:03 GMT
You are not expected to embrace that part. The rules are just for those that want to play with those models. Within your group you can allow whatever it is you wish. That is the whole point of this group, ti generate new ideas to go into the 8th edition rules.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Aug 9, 2015 2:40:22 GMT
Sigmarines are a new unit. Seems like a reasonable new unit.
Keep in mind, at one point, DemiGryph Knights were a totally new unit.
Keep in mind, at one point, Tree Kin were a totally new unit.
Keep in mind, at one point, Flying High Elf Eagle Chariots were a totally new unit.
Keep in mind, at one point, Arachnok Spiders were a totally new unit.
Keep in mind, at one point, IronDrakes were a totally new unit.
Keep in mind, at one point, Hell Pit Abominations were a totally new unit.
I just mentally think and say Sigmarines are part of a new Empire update mini-book.
No big deal.
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Toro_Blanco
New Member
Nobody enjoys a good laugh more than I do.
Posts: 18
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Post by Toro_Blanco on Aug 9, 2015 20:20:50 GMT
Sigmarines are a new unit. Seems like a reasonable new unit. Keep in mind, at one point, DemiGryph Knights were a totally new unit. Keep in mind, at one point, Tree Kin were a totally new unit. Keep in mind, at one point, Flying High Elf Eagle Chariots were a totally new unit. Keep in mind, at one point, Arachnok Spiders were a totally new unit. Keep in mind, at one point, IronDrakes were a totally new unit. Keep in mind, at one point, Hell Pit Abominations were a totally new unit. I just mentally think and say Sigmarines are part of a new Empire update mini-book. No big deal. I don't really like Demigryph knights either, and I could expound on my reasoning, but it's not really that important. I'm just not interested in embracing ANYTHING from Storm of Chaos on fluff-wise. |
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