|
Post by avatarofbugman on Aug 9, 2015 22:26:57 GMT
That is fine. Remember that we are just a small group of guys looking to "unofficially" keep 8th edition alive. Nothing here is considered canon. Use what you want, ignore what you don't, and add what you think would be cool to add. We welcome all.
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Aug 10, 2015 16:41:07 GMT
Yeah, people I play with usually avoid WoC all together. We pretty much all consider them a point and click army and none of us like that, so we typically play as though they don't exist. Only one guy in our group has a WoC army and he always takes unusual lists and never DPs. Now, I've occasionally played a newby WoC player here and there at our local GW store and it just serves to remind my why I hate them so much.
If you don't like something, don't play with it. pretty simple. If you like the idea, but not the models, find something that can substitute for it. Look at wilsonthenarc's Empire of the Sword and Sun army. Great example.
|
|
|
Post by wilsonthenarc on Aug 10, 2015 18:40:23 GMT
I like WoC cause they are dead ahead straight ahead goons. They also happen to be a tad OP (operpowered).
I also like to keep playing with people, so I don't write dirtbag WoC lists. Sure, double Daemon Prince might win more, but I'd rather have an actual battle with lots of dudes.
Your 1+/3+ re-roll'able ward saves won't win you any pints at the bar post game!
|
|
|
Post by wilsonthenarc on Aug 10, 2015 18:45:09 GMT
I guess what I'm trying to say is, Dumb Vikings can be a fun cool army. Also, $1 side bet on is the domain name taken for www.dumbvikings.com
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Aug 10, 2015 19:46:15 GMT
Yeah, you're right. They can be really cool with the right slant. It's just so easy to go off the deep end with them. I don't know how many games my block of 40 Halberdiers have bitten it because one DP or unkillable character got into them turn two. That's just wrong.
I get what you're saying about the straight ahead tactics. I and my group call that "Hulk SMASH!" tactics. But there are other armies (Ogres comes to mind) that can do that too without being too OP, IMHO.
|
|
|
Post by wilsonthenarc on Aug 10, 2015 20:11:46 GMT
On one side of the spectrum is the MSU Wood Elf army that can never be pinned down. Duck, dodge, duck again, scamper, retreat, shoot then scamper again.
On the other side is any ol' Hulk Smash army that just lines up 12" in and moves forward. There are times where both of those options become terrifically UNfun to play or to play against.
My WoC army at least has some Cav (Knights and Marauders) so I can pretend like I haz fancy maneuver tactics.
|
|
|
Post by dannytee on Aug 11, 2015 0:37:37 GMT
With the demon princes I have had plenty of games where one cannon ball kills my enemies 400+ point model. So to me it kind of balances out the fact that they are able to eat a horde alive if they make it into combat. But any extreme can be tough to play against and enjoy. All shooting is another example of a single tactic army that many enemies may not enjoy.
Wilson sums up my feelings well above with "I also like to keep playing with people, so I don't write dirtbag WoC lists."
|
|
|
Post by TheREALricksalamone on Aug 11, 2015 2:22:09 GMT
A 400 pt unit (DP in this example) should shred a 270 pt unit of halberdiers.
|
|
|
Post by avatarofbugman on Aug 11, 2015 2:28:15 GMT
True, Rich. Also, the MSU wood elves would get chased down by a MSU Ogre army. It is all about the right tool for the right job. It does suck very much when you left that tool at home, so to speak.
|
|
|
Post by wilsonthenarc on Aug 11, 2015 18:24:35 GMT
Where would an all Hobgoblin Wolf Rider army fall?? Like 140 green dudes on slobbering slavering wolves? That is, IMHO, a strictly pre-ET type list, full of flavor.
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Aug 11, 2015 18:53:46 GMT
Oh, all very true guys. Any army, if taken to an extreme can become rather boring to play. Whenever I run my Wood Elf army, I hardly ever take an all-avoidance list simply because it's no fun to play or play against. (And if you get cornered, you're screwed.) It just seems to me that with WoC, everything is so beefed up, that it's too easy to go over the top and become OP.
As far as an all Wolf Rider force would go, I think all you'd have to do is kill one or two units and then watch all the rest flee off the table! Eeep!
|
|
Toro_Blanco
New Member
Nobody enjoys a good laugh more than I do.
Posts: 18
|
Post by Toro_Blanco on Aug 11, 2015 19:32:17 GMT
Fluff Armies are always what I field; it's no fun to me to just play a beardy, exploitative list.
I just didn't want to start a trend where Sigmarines or other optional items became part of a core list rather than truly optional. I'm all for trying new things and eras, I just don't want my arm twisted into it. I'm staying with 8th to get away from the AoS/End Times nonsense, after all.
|
|
|
Post by TheREALricksalamone on Aug 12, 2015 3:51:10 GMT
If woc goes up against lore of metal they are dead.
|
|
|
Post by KevinC on Aug 12, 2015 11:48:39 GMT
YES!
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Aug 12, 2015 12:59:57 GMT
That's true, but I always feel like a heel if I take something like that intentionally and I wind up blowing my opponent away.
For example, a couple of months ago, I played an Ogre army with my Wood Elves. I took the Acorn of Ages on my Glade Lord, the Book of Ashur on my Lv4 of Shadow, the Moonstone of Hidden Ways on my BSB and Calingor's Stave on a Lv1. I placed all of them in one big unit of Glade Guard and filled up the rest with Treekin, Treemen and Wild Riders. It didn't help him any that we rolled up three forests for our terrain before I used the Acorn (of which I rolled up 3 more forests) and then got my free forest. Every time he moved he was having to take DT tests and I pretty much had free reign of the board. I won the chance to go first and shot at his Deathstar. I wound up taking something like three Ogres off (maybe it was two and almost a third) and that got him scared and he pushed forward to get to me. This opened up a corner forest, which I jumped into at the top of turn two. I then proceeded to cast Pit of Shades on that Deathstar and wound up removing half of the unit as well as his BSB. It also didn't help that he had entered a forest (the one where there is some sort of magical backlash if you cast a spell within it or it gets augmented if casting on someone in it) that increased the damage of the spell.
He just deflated after that. I felt terrible. What looked to be a fun game, wound up not being very fun for either of us. That's why I usually try to mix everything up and take lists that are more fluffy than competitive. Everyone enjoys it so much more in my group. We create stories about the game we are playing and sometimes that carries over into a campaign. I much prefer that.
Sorry if I came down a little harsh on WoC earlier, but my group typically avoids them because it is so easy to get a one-sided game with them. It is honestly hard to find a weakness with them. Elves have low toughness, not much in the way of armor, and are expensive. Skaven and Goblins are cowards. Undead are reliant on their heroes. Pretty much every army has a weakness except for WoC. You can't really say taking the lore of metal or taking cannons will beat them. While effective against them, it's not really an inherent weakness.
I think the Warriors definitely have a really cool look (until you start getting into the Demon stuff - I don't really like stuff like that.) and has tons of potential for some GREAT conversions. I've always LOVED the Viking Warrior idea with Norse Demi-gods joining in on their side! You could even re-write them to have "marks" of four big Norse gods (Thor/Khorne, Loki/Tzeentch, [Papa]Odin/Nurgle, Hel/Slaanesh).I'd just want them toned down a bit if I were to use them.
|
|