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Post by gregwarhamsters on Sept 6, 2017 21:49:24 GMT
Giving almost an entire army M3 doesn't help either. but they're not the slowest army. Greg
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Post by vulcan on Sept 6, 2017 23:19:48 GMT
I'll bite. What army is slower than all-infantry M3 dwarves? Trust me, having a couple gyros does not a movement phase make.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Sept 7, 2017 1:58:07 GMT
I'll bite. What army is slower than all-infantry M3 dwarves? Trust me, having a couple gyros does not a movement phase make. I'm guessing he will say Tomb Kings? Can't be chaos dwarfs.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Sept 7, 2017 11:35:30 GMT
I'll bite. What army is slower than all-infantry M3 dwarves? Trust me, having a couple gyros does not a movement phase make. Tomb Kings. They have M4 and cannot march. So slow.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Sept 7, 2017 11:38:45 GMT
Although, in theory, you could have a Tomb King army that was entirely (1) Chariots and (2) Skeletal Horsemen. All swiftstride, the Horsemen are Fast Cav, the Chariots hit like a ton of bricks. Sometimes those are mud bricks - but bricks nonetheless.
That includes your Tomb King on a Chariot and your Liche(s) on Skeletal Horses. Urrybody movin' fast... even though they can't march, they be movin' fast.
Of course; your spells can kind of sort of mimic a march move in effect. If you get them off that is.
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Post by Horace on Sept 7, 2017 20:59:17 GMT
Vampires are likewise pretty slow. The large units make staying within the generals 12" to march very difficult
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Sept 7, 2017 21:40:52 GMT
I'm guessing he will say Tomb Kings. ha ha yes, sure certain elements of a TK can move faster but I bet if I added up all the movement values and divided it by the number of models it would be less than 6. You cant say spells in the same way you cannot say vanguard as both armies can do it. In a way its like asking what is the average number of legs a human being has. I don't really find the dwarves lack of movement a problem, you tend to bunch together so don't get out of shape so quickly Greg
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Post by vulcan on Sept 8, 2017 2:49:55 GMT
Fair point.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 15:59:16 GMT
To be honest the only Tomb King armies I've seen are so full of archers that the army doesn't want to move much. The one unit (Tomb Guard) that does want to march is still able to thanks to the general (and like 30 other characters) being bunkered inside that unit.
My local TK player is not very imaginative.
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Post by mottdon on Sept 12, 2017 16:29:29 GMT
Lol, same here. The other TK player I know uses mostly Skeleton Archers as a bunker for his Heirophant and then Tomb Guard, Warshpinx, Snake Surfers and even Scorpions to do his attacking. But with things like the Casket of Souls, Catapult and Magic, most opponents are rather eager to get across to him. He doesn't have to move much.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Sept 12, 2017 20:34:49 GMT
As someone who plays a lot of Tomb Kings... I can say that the only reasons I still play Skeleton Archers is because (1) I have the minis and (2) to fill up core. Possible reason #3: I like the unit fillers on my units. Any Tomb King General would be much better served bringing chariots and horsemen to fill your core needs. A basic skeleton archer is pretty turrbull. Even hordes of 30, when they shoot arrows, hitting on 5+s no matter what... just pack no punch. In a recent game I had a unit of 30 skeleton archers shoot at a unit of 10 Dwarf Irondrakes every turn for 6 turns. There were still 4 Drakes left. No victory points. All my unit did was take up space. And make me roll a lot of dice. Over 300 dice rolls, conservatively. Skeleton archers get OWNED in combat by everybody and their uncle. Everyone except the gimpiest goblins, I guess. In a recent game a (smallish) unit of Khorne Warriors killed 17 Skeletons in combat and won by about 15, crumbling the entire unit in one fell swoop. They weren't even a speed bump. Their counter strikes failed to kill even one Khorne Warrior. I guess they can provide a safe bunker for your caster... and that's the commonly accepted wisdom... But 30 Archers w. Command is 210 points. I'd rather have a casket or a Sphinx.
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Post by mottdon on Sept 13, 2017 1:41:50 GMT
But isn't that all Skeletons are really supposed to be? Just a tarpit? You want my caster? Well you've gotta Wade through all these Skeletons first. So why not make 'em shoot too?
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Sept 13, 2017 16:51:49 GMT
But isn't that all Skeletons are really supposed to be? Just a tarpit? You want my caster? Well you've gotta Wade through all these Skeletons first. So why not make 'em shoot too? If you expect Khorne Berserkers to "Wade" through skeletons, you will be sorely mistaken. Continuing the water analogy... I would liken it to the Berserkers riding a 1500 CC Jet Ski. There is no wading; they go through at 55+ MPH. Waving an American Flag in one hand while shotgunning a can of Miller Lite in the other. Truly, the unruly Red Necks of the Warhammer World (Red is the color of Khorne, eh?) Consider Demigryphs and/or Dwarf Clansmen with Great Weapons and/or a medium sized block of Ogres... I have witnessed all of them there units 1-shot a block of 30 Skeleton Archers. --The Bunker theory might stop a unit of 5 Fast Cav or a Hero and maybe even a Monster, but not a true hammer unit. --A true hammer unit will more likely than not rip through a bunker of 30 skeleton rank-and-file in 1 round of combat. --Even if they don't KILL 30, the lopsided combat result will result in massive crumbles. All that said, I still put my Liche Priests in a bunker of 30 skeletal archers. It's just what you do.I am open to exploring new ideas, that's all. I think other options might be more effective.
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Post by mottdon on Sept 13, 2017 17:01:58 GMT
Lol, great analogy!
Well, I think that if your opponent's hammer unit reaches your Skeleton Archer bunker, it's probably a fair bet to say that the game is already over.
What about taking two blocks of 50 Skeleton Spears with Prince in with them? Good WS might help out and that many bodies.... That's GOT to free up your other killy stuff to do their thang.
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Sept 13, 2017 22:59:58 GMT
Skeleton archers while just as effective as other archers (most do something to get a to hit of 5+, like move or fire at long range) missile fire rarely wins games in 8th.
Skeletons with spears are just a waste of points.
Tomb guard marching? Must be playing end times rules then, and this opens up so many more options - but in my book it stops being a Tomb King list.
Personally my core is either chariots and maybe horse archers or hand weapon and shield warriors with horsemen and horse archers.
It follows the rule of being cheap and to have redirectors, except of course chariots.
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