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Post by strutsagget on Sept 8, 2017 6:52:31 GMT
So trying to get what it states at other forums but they don't see to agree  My simple understanding. Hellcannon cant move and shoot as it acts as a stone thrower/warmachine when shooting. And it can pivot in the beginning of shooting. |
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Post by Horace on Sept 8, 2017 7:32:48 GMT
It also has the Move or Fire rule so I would think this is the case. It fires as a stone thrower so would get it's free pivot in the shooting phase
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 8, 2017 8:22:52 GMT
While "Doomfire is fired following the rules of a stone thrower," the Troop Type of the Hellcannon is Monster, not War machine. Compare, for instance, with the Steam Tank, which is a Chariot, and not a War machine.
Therefore, the Hellcannon does not get the free pivot for War machines in the Shooting phase, and it can only shoot at a target within its frontal arc, provided, of course, it has not moved that turn.
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Post by frozenfood on Sept 8, 2017 8:25:31 GMT
Hellcanon is a monster? What kind of army IS that??
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Post by strutsagget on Sept 8, 2017 10:18:07 GMT
While "Doomfire is fired following the rules of a stone thrower," the Troop Type of the Hellcannon is Monster, not War machine. Compare, for instance, with the Steam Tank, which is a Chariot, and not a War machine. Therefore, the Hellcannon does not get the free pivot for War machines in the Shooting phase, and it can only shoot at a target within its frontal arc, provided, of course, it has not moved that turn. So why is only halfe of the shooting with war machines section accounted for. As both shoot or move and pivot seems to come from same section? War machines and not stone throwers. |
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Post by strutsagget on Sept 8, 2017 10:22:29 GMT
While "Doomfire is fired following the rules of a stone thrower," the Troop Type of the Hellcannon is Monster, not War machine. Compare, for instance, with the Steam Tank, which is a Chariot, and not a War machine. Therefore, the Hellcannon does not get the free pivot for War machines in the Shooting phase, and it can only shoot at a target within its frontal arc, provided, of course, it has not moved that turn. So why is only halfe of the shooting with war machines section accounted for. As both shoot or move and pivot seems to come from same section? War machines and not stone throwers. Sorry just notices that move or shoot is added to the special section of the profile. |
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Post by askaval30 on Sept 8, 2017 12:21:19 GMT
Oh how I love my Hellcannons! possibly one of the few models to still use the Monster & Handlers rule from the BRB... anyhow while it can't pivot like a war machine you can still use the 360 movement pivot (for single models) to set up a shot for the following turn, provided it doesn't decide to rampage off on its own after eating a couple of handlers.
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Post by mottdon on Sept 8, 2017 13:50:44 GMT
So it basically sounds like regardless of whether it is classified as "Monster" or "War Machine" it still has a chance to pivot and shoot at a target, just that the pivot occurs in different phases. Much like Lizardmen Salamanders.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 8, 2017 13:59:33 GMT
Not quite. As askaval30 says, it pivots to set up a shot for the following turn.
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Post by mottdon on Sept 8, 2017 14:35:23 GMT
So it really only gets 3 shots off all game?!? Is that really worth the points?
Well, if it shoots in it's front arc, I suppose that's why people park it so far back, then huh? So that they don't have to move it.
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Post by askaval30 on Sept 8, 2017 14:35:35 GMT
Not quite. As askaval30 says, it pivots to set up a shot for the following turn. Usually I keep it parked on a flank for 2-3 turns of shooting before letting it loose, might be my natural luck but the damned thing is a lot more effective in melee than it is at hitting things. |
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Post by askaval30 on Sept 8, 2017 14:38:41 GMT
So it really only gets 3 shots off all game?!? Is that really worth the points? It is a wonderful flank denier and tough as nails to boot... unbreakable, Thunderstomp, armor saves, ward saves and three "ablative" wounds thanks to the handlers. Some of my greatest satisfactions in life were seeing an opponent who is unaware of the nature of the thing charging it with artillery hunters... ah those days! |
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Post by knoffles on Sept 9, 2017 9:43:00 GMT
Usually I keep it parked on a flank for 2-3 turns of shooting before letting it loose, might be my natural luck but the damned thing is a lot more effective in melee than it is at hitting things. I agree that whenever I face the thing, shooting normally goes tits up but it butchers stuff in combat. |
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Oct 12, 2017 6:16:37 GMT
I've seen this arguments levied defending both sides of this debate, but I have always played it with the interpretation that you can pivot the Hellcannon to face its target and still fire. My rationale is simple and stems from the following two rules: - "Doomfire is fired following the rules for a stone thrower..." (WoC army book, page 42)
- Part of the rules governing how a stone thrower is fired includes "...before you fire the war machine, pivot it to face your chosen target (this doesn't count as moving)." (BRB, page 109)
The fact that the above quote references the word "war machine" (while the Hellcannon is clearly classed as a monster) and also the fact that the quote comes from the section headed by the subtitle "Shooting with War Machines" is irrelevant. Doomfire follows the firing rules for a stone thrower, stone throwers follow the firing rules for war machines, which includes a free pivot. Essentially we are left with: Hellcannon Doomfire firing rules = Stone Thrower firing rules = Warmachine firing rules = free pivot. I've never had an opponent argue this interpretation of the rules, although it helps that my Hellcannons are made of pewter and not Finecast.  |
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Post by frozenfood on Oct 12, 2017 6:24:40 GMT
I've never had an opponent argue this interpretation of the rules, although it helps that my Hellcannons are made of pewter and not Finecast. Pics or it didn't happen... |
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