|
Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Oct 12, 2017 6:28:28 GMT
I've never had an opponent argue this interpretation of the rules, although it helps that my Hellcannons are made of pewter and not Finecast. Pics or it didn't happen... Sadly, only 1 of my 4 hellcannons (more accurately 3.75 hellcannons, one needs a bit of conversion work to make up for missing pieces) are fully painted (and that is a paint job done by the guy I bought it from secondhand). I have no pictures of them.
|
|
|
Post by strutsagget on Oct 12, 2017 6:47:49 GMT
I've seen this arguments levied defending both sides of this debate, but I have always played it with the interpretation that you can pivot the Hellcannon to face its target and still fire. My rationale is simple and stems from the following two rules: - "Doomfire is fired following the rules for a stone thrower..." (WoC army book, page 42)
- Part of the rules governing how a stone thrower is fired includes "...before you fire the war machine, pivot it to face your chosen target (this doesn't count as moving)." (BRB, page 109)
The fact that the above quote references the word "war machine" (while the Hellcannon is clearly classed as a monster) and also the fact that the quote comes from the section headed by the subtitle "Shooting with War Machines" is irrelevant. Doomfire follows the firing rules for a stone thrower, stone throwers follow the firing rules for war machines, which includes a free pivot. Essentially we are left with: Hellcannon Doomfire firing rules = Stone Thrower firing rules = Warmachine firing rules = free pivot. I've never had an opponent argue this interpretation of the rules, although it helps that my Hellcannons are made of pewter and not Finecast. But stone thowers dont have piwot in thier ruling, piwot come from being a war machine. Hellcanon follow rules of monsters. But if your friends and you think it makes for a better game go for it!
|
|
|
Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Oct 12, 2017 14:54:27 GMT
I've seen this arguments levied defending both sides of this debate, but I have always played it with the interpretation that you can pivot the Hellcannon to face its target and still fire. My rationale is simple and stems from the following two rules: - "Doomfire is fired following the rules for a stone thrower..." (WoC army book, page 42)
- Part of the rules governing how a stone thrower is fired includes "...before you fire the war machine, pivot it to face your chosen target (this doesn't count as moving)." (BRB, page 109)
The fact that the above quote references the word "war machine" (while the Hellcannon is clearly classed as a monster) and also the fact that the quote comes from the section headed by the subtitle "Shooting with War Machines" is irrelevant. Doomfire follows the firing rules for a stone thrower, stone throwers follow the firing rules for war machines, which includes a free pivot. Essentially we are left with: Hellcannon Doomfire firing rules = Stone Thrower firing rules = Warmachine firing rules = free pivot. I've never had an opponent argue this interpretation of the rules, although it helps that my Hellcannons are made of pewter and not Finecast. But stone thowers dont have piwot in thier ruling, piwot come from being a war machine. Hellcanon follow rules of monsters. But if your friends and you think it makes for a better game go for it! You are indeed correct that the rules for pivoting are not located under the "Stone Throwers" subsection, but it does not matter. The Hellcannon's Doomfire "is fired following the rules for a stone thrower" and not necessarily "the rules found specifically under the stone thrower subsection". So the question becomes: what are the rules governing the firing of a stone thrower (in other words, what rules do you need to know in order to fire a stone thrower)?... To fire a stone thrower you must access the general rules for firing a war machine (found on page 109 of the BRB) and the more specific rules for stone throwers found on page 114 of the BRB. Those are the rules governing how a stone thrower is fired; general war machine firing rules plus specific rules for stone throwers. The reason why pivoting is not included under the stoner throwers subsection is because it also applies to all the rest of the war machines as well. Rules-wise, you could just as easily copy and paste the free pivot rule into each of the individual subheadings for bolt throwers, cannons, fire throwers & stone throwers. However that would be very repetitive, so GW wrote the pivot rule into a general section which then applies to all the individual war machine subsections. It is simply a writing and organizational artifact. Doomfire = Firing a stone thrower = (general rules for firing a war machine + stone thrower rules) = Doomfire As I stated in my original post, I have heard arguments for and against each side, but in my experience the arguments against have only ever taken place within online forums. Every FLGS and GW store I have been to has played it in the way I detailed above and while that is anecdotal, the point is that it is definitely a larger group than my friends and I. That said, if you believe the opposite interpretation to be correct, then by all means play it that way.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 22:53:34 GMT
I've never had an opponent argue this interpretation of the rules, although it helps that my Hellcannons are made of pewter and not Finecast. Pics or it didn't happen... My hellcannons are metal. EDIT: I also happen to agree with NIGHTBRINGER about how to conduct the firing of the Hellcannon and is how I've always played it. It's also why I also allow for the ironcurse icon to work against its shots; while technically a monster and handlers, it fires as if a stone thrower hence a warmachine for shooting purposes. And it's glorious when Hellcannons are hit by cannons. You get a Ward Save, and then a crew save on top of it! Essentially two 5+ rolls, the first one ignores all damage, and the second roll means you're only taking a single wound against a crewman. They're nasty flank protectors, one of my favorite units in the book!
|
|
|
Post by gregwarhamsters on Oct 16, 2017 23:20:04 GMT
Broken...
|
|
|
Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Oct 17, 2017 0:26:52 GMT
They are awesome (and trust me, they are not nearly as broken as some of the other options WoC have access to). I'm looking to paint my hellcannons in the colour schemes of each of the Chaos gods. 4 Hellcannons & 4 Chaos gods!
|
|
|
Post by grandmasterwang on Oct 17, 2017 3:31:32 GMT
They are awesome (and trust me, they are not nearly as broken as some of the other options WoC have access to). I'm looking to paint my hellcannons in the colour schemes of each of the Chaos gods. 4 Hellcannons & 4 Chaos gods! That's awesome. Hellcannon pantheon.
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Oct 17, 2017 12:56:12 GMT
Spawn of SATAAAAAAAN!!!!! This is me every time I play a WoC player...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 18:03:15 GMT
|
|
|
Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Oct 17, 2017 21:27:30 GMT
Spawn of SATAAAAAAAN!!!!! This is me every time I play a WoC player... What about the other powerhouse armies? Or is it just WoC?
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Oct 17, 2017 21:56:37 GMT
Lol, I'm just an animated, beer-n-pretzels Empire player who like to get into character.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 22:52:40 GMT
I think it's more to do with them being "evil" and the anti-hero stuff they have going for them rather than their overall power level.
|
|
|
Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Oct 18, 2017 4:10:50 GMT
Hahahaha... fair enough. In that case, join the dark side... we have cookies!
|
|
theunheard
New Member
Old gamer, restarted late in 8th - didn't like AoS
Posts: 14
|
Post by theunheard on Oct 18, 2017 12:02:59 GMT
I'm looking to paint my hellcannons in the colour schemes of each of the Chaos gods. 4 Hellcannons & 4 Chaos gods! You're not a true chaos player - sounds like too much order in your life Will
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Oct 18, 2017 12:35:47 GMT
Hahahaha... fair enough. In that case, join the dark side... we have cookies! COOOKIIIIIIEEES!
|
|