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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Oct 18, 2017 18:59:15 GMT
I'm looking to paint my hellcannons in the colour schemes of each of the Chaos gods. 4 Hellcannons & 4 Chaos gods! You're not a true chaos player - sounds like too much order in your life Will I am indeed one part Sith and one part Jedi!
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Post by mottdon on Oct 18, 2017 19:23:23 GMT
You're not a true chaos player - sounds like too much order in your life Will I am indeed one part Sith and one part Jedi! Sith + Jedi = Samurai Jack?
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Oct 19, 2017 0:23:48 GMT
I am indeed one part Sith and one part Jedi! Sith + Jedi = Samurai Jack? Hahaha... love it!
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Post by strutsagget on Nov 17, 2017 11:37:11 GMT
So this is the comp rules where I live and some other: 4.11. Q: How do non-War Machine units that fire like War Machines choose targets? A: They never pivot towards their target and fire like troops using BS shooting. The target must be in the front arc, LoS and range. The Steam Tank may still only fire directly ahead from the centre of its frontage. Hellcannons and similar may not target any spot that is within minimum range to any part of the base. They can use indirect fire at targets outside the front arc. This is the comp rules of Burning of Lustria October 2017: (takes up all other unclear same situations) Cannons mounted on chariots, such as the Ironblaster, Skullcannon and steam tank may not pivot in the shooting phase and like all other cannons must shoot in a straight line forward from the barrel. Independent WFB FAQ Document v1.4 *Units that shoot in a similar manner to war machines, such as Ironblasters and Hellcannons, may not perform a free pivot in the shooting phase. Let's just say tourney organizer really don't seem to favour free pivot with units that follow war machine rules(but are different troop type) to set up charge and the how a 100x50 base interact with other units if free pivoting... navster how did you run the Hellcanon rules where you played?
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Post by Horace on Nov 17, 2017 13:40:42 GMT
Maybe someone should message whoever wrote the WoC book...
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Post by strutsagget on Nov 17, 2017 16:01:41 GMT
Maybe someone should message whoever wrote the WoC book... Of course, just as long they bother to read the book at least before giving out at RAI. Horace do you allow steamtanks and skullcanons free pivots too?
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Post by Horace on Nov 17, 2017 16:11:27 GMT
Steam Tanks.. no. It says Steam Tanks "may only be fired directly ahead" which implies you have to have used your steam points to line it up. At least that's how we have always played it.
I have never faced, nor own a Skull Cannon so will have to consult the book
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Nov 18, 2017 5:29:37 GMT
Personally I have never put much stock into comp rulings. That goes for comps from individual tournaments or even more widespread comps such as Swedish or ETC. Outside of a tournament setting, their opinion is no more valid than anyone else's. Only a GW faq could have provided an official ruling, but that will never happen now. Best practice remains to discuss with your opponent prior to the start of the game.
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Post by strutsagget on Nov 18, 2017 10:37:26 GMT
NIGHTBRINGER I do agree with agreeing with your friends before playing. I also agree we probably never will get RAI clarification on it and I definitely not know what intended as that seems like every page in the book can be interpreted differently and is poorly written. I do find it a little funny though that you trust GW store staffs that's sole purpose is to make sure you have fun and buy more plastic crack and don't trust tourney judges/organizers that spend their time to get a level ground on unclear FAQ questions. For me that feels a little bit backward
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Post by Horace on Nov 18, 2017 10:58:48 GMT
We could well get clarification from the author, I got Matt Ward to clear up the RAI with regards to the General/Leadership issue. Just give them a message I am sure they will be happy to help.
These tournament organisers with all their comp etc do have a different perspective though. I would assume they are generally very balance driven and 9th age-y (generalisation ahoy) so I am not sure I would take their view as cast iron on the subject. A lot of these problematic rules do not actually have an answer because it depends how you interpret the writing which is not 100% clear. Saying that, it never really even occurred to me to try and claim a free pivot on the Steam Tank. The Skull Cannon I would play as getting the free pivot, same as the Hellcannon. That's my interpretation anyways.
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Post by mottdon on Nov 18, 2017 12:24:05 GMT
Yeah, the Steam Tank is all about how many "Steam Points" you attempt to generate. On your turn, you may allocate at least one Steam Point into moving the Stank toward the target you intent to shoot at, and then steam points into shooting the cannon. The movement system for a Stank is just different. I have no idea how the Skullcannon works.
That being said, I pay no attention to tournament rules either. They are usually written to prevent a local abuse of "loophole rules" so that people don't get mad at the 1 or 2 WAAC players who randomly appear out of nowhere. Most of the time, they make logical sense, but sometimes they are included to play out some scenario or objective (or something locals simply hate) that wouldn't normally be included. It takes some careful reading to determine which of these are for those purposes. Not worth my time, typically.
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Post by strutsagget on Nov 18, 2017 13:31:37 GMT
We could well get clarification from the author, I got Matt Ward to clear up the RAI with regards to the General/Leadership issue. Just give them a message I am sure they will be happy to help. These tournament organisers with all their comp etc do have a different perspective though. I would assume they are generally very balance driven and 9th age-y (generalisation ahoy) so I am not sure I would take their view as cast iron on the subject. A lot of these problematic rules do not actually have an answer because it depends how you interpret the writing which is not 100% clear. Saying that, it never really even occurred to me to try and claim a free pivot on the Steam Tank. The Skull Cannon I would play as getting the free pivot, same as the Hellcannon. That's my interpretation anyways. If you like. It's more a general question. Do a monster/chariot/etc.(not war machines) shooting like a cannon or stone thrower get a free pivot like war machines.
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Post by mottdon on Nov 18, 2017 13:37:19 GMT
Well, cannons like the one on the Stank, aren't based on BS shooting, so it doesn't matter if they move in the movement phase or not. Most of these will simply line up their shot in movement, and then shoot in the shooting phase. No free pivot needed. Artillery like Organ Guns or Spear Chukkas do require BS, so that free pivot matters.
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Post by Horace on Nov 18, 2017 13:48:12 GMT
We could well get clarification from the author, I got Matt Ward to clear up the RAI with regards to the General/Leadership issue. Just give them a message I am sure they will be happy to help. These tournament organisers with all their comp etc do have a different perspective though. I would assume they are generally very balance driven and 9th age-y (generalisation ahoy) so I am not sure I would take their view as cast iron on the subject. A lot of these problematic rules do not actually have an answer because it depends how you interpret the writing which is not 100% clear. Saying that, it never really even occurred to me to try and claim a free pivot on the Steam Tank. The Skull Cannon I would play as getting the free pivot, same as the Hellcannon. That's my interpretation anyways. If you like. It's more a general question. Do a monster/chariot/etc.(not war machines) shooting like a cannon or stone thrower get a free pivot like war machines. It is a grey area, to which I would personally say yes they do as long as the rulebook says shoot as per the cannon rules etc
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Post by strutsagget on Nov 18, 2017 13:52:12 GMT
mottdon , NIGHTBRINGER and Horace but calling ETC, SWFAC and Independent WFB FAQ Document just work of sole local individuals is not something I think is true. The FAQ parts are usually separate from the comp system though. But yes, clearing up bad situations it is more important for games/tournaments with prices/goals. The free pivot is not movement for war machines so it doesn't interfere with Steam Tanks movement restrictions (kind of the point). For me, it's either always or never (speaking like a true sith lord) and pretty random to do it sometimes. Wording: Hellcanon: Doomfire: Doomfire is fired following the rules for a stone thrower with the following profile: Skull Canon: Skull Cannon: Fire the skull cannon in the same way as a normal cannon, using the following profile: Steam Tank: The Steam Cannon is a cannon with the following profile: Lothern Skycutters: The eagle eye bolt thrower is a bolt thrower with the following profile, ... --- With that said I still don't claim to know whats intended just that free pivot to set up shooting and charging next turn is kind of bending the rules in favour. And also the free pivot on units with bases (large bases) opens up for other bad interactions.
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