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Post by KevinC on Nov 8, 2015 23:26:52 GMT
So what happened??
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Nov 9, 2015 1:28:51 GMT
It was very fun.
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Nov 9, 2015 17:30:47 GMT
I'll have more to say as time permits but my initial reaction was that Daboyz GT 2015 was a nice gathering of guys who still appreciate Warhammer Fantasy Battles. I'd like to not use this review as a platform about EE versus other game systems vying to replace it...but I will probably end up doing it anyway.
Venue (Bristol Harbor Resort):
The room we played in had ample space and tables for setting up. There was just enough room between battlefields to fit an entire army display board. This made me very happy. There were lots of chairs available to put bags and books on. I never felt stressed out of cramped. I was even able to open up the windows behind where I was sitting and get some cool lake breeze (and air out some gamer stench from the room). The venue supplied plastic cups and dispensers of ice water, another nice touch. There was a bar right next to our gaming room serving delicious food and pitchers of beer. I snuck in my own beer and food but patronized the bar/restaurant for dinner on Saturday night with dannytee and Corey Reynolds. Delicious food.
The lighting in our gaming room was poor but near the windows the natural light helped.
Organization:
Gary and Tom ran a smooth event. There were a few glitches with pairings but nobody seemed to care at all. The overall atmosphere of the event was so laid back-I don't recall even one instance of anyone calling over a judge to resolve a rule question (from what I saw). Pairings were printed out and displayed well in advance, allowing players to start games earlier if they wanted, though I never felt rushed at any point during my five games.
Note that we shared a room with AoS players (roughly equal in number) and we all shared painting, sportsmanship, and a few other awards at the end. There was an individual champion for each system though.
Participants:
I enjoyed all five of my opponents though I had varying outcomes in those battles. There were a few guys who travelled from Vermont (because they loved 8th edition and thought this might be the last chance to play in an 8th event) and they were great. One of them brought the best painted set of miniatures I've ever seen in person: an Empire army worthy of praise. 5 of the players were from EEFL and sported the official shirts, which was nice. There was a mix of old guys and a few school-aged kids...also a good sign for our hobby.
Paint Judging:
I was pleased to see Gary set up a light at the judges table for closer painting inspection as the room lighting was generally poor for looking at miniatures. Gary and Tom used a scoring rubric to evaluate my army, asked questions about conversions, and made comments on the level of brush skill displayed. I was told my level was "intermediate". I'm not sure if every army made it under the light. Perhaps it was just the top half or so.
Best Appearance was a combined score of both judge scoring and favorite army vote from the participants (Player's Choice). Mikki from Vermont won with his awesome Empire army. He did not have a display base (lost points from judges) but must have utterly destroyed on Player's Choice votes. Either way, his stuff was the best in the room. I came away with second place.
Battles:
Through 5 rounds we fought over beer keg objectives, a hill, diagonally, blood and glory, etc. each battle had a variety of up to 5 bonus points for doing things like "kill enemy general in a challenge", "roll a 2 or a 12 for leadership", or "get your highest point unit in the enemy deployment zone".
My 5 battles were (I was mono-Khorne warriors):
1) Warriors (variety of marks and units): narrow win
2) Daemons (nurgle and slaanesh) : big loss
3) Empire (Cathay) : draw
4) Lizards (saurus, slaan): big win
5) Wood Elves (omfg): the single worst defeat I've ever faced in nearly 20 years of wargaming
I heard I was in a close pack for top 3 entering my final game. Getting zero points cemented me at #3 overall.
Sportsmanship:
Our area is known for having a few difficult WFB players but thankfully they appear to be in the group that believes the game is dead. I thought everyone had a great time and the spirits in the room were very high considering we were sitting at the funeral for warhammer fantasy tournaments. Nobody argued. Even when I was getting violated by wood elves, both of us were smiling and laughing the whole way.
Areas to Improve:
I understand that running a tournament is a business venture and that the TOs need bodies there. I liked the small crowd but Gary needs people there if we are to ever continue with these events. The perception that warhammer was over could be heard by a few passers-by. That made me sad. I also wondered where the Aos people even came from...I wonder if they tried proper warhammer, would they like it?
Better lighting in the room, the ability to freely bring in my own beer, and more prizes would be the only things I'd want more of.
Gary ran a great event and if this was to be my last warhammer tournament, I can say it was a great experience (even with the wood elves). I wish that more lovers of WFB could have found it important enough to come and show support. They missed out on something special...maybe for the last time ever.
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Post by mottdon on Nov 9, 2015 18:06:20 GMT
Sounds like you had a great time! Maybe there will be a resurgence once the initial AoS excitement has all petered out. Out of curiosity, were the comments that "Fantasy is dead" coming from AoS players or random people in the room? Were they experienced Fantasy players or people who really didn't have any formal experience with the game and that was their overall impression?
It has been my experience that AoS supporters really try pushing this "8th is dead" idea in hopes that players will abandon it in favor of their game, or people who have never played Fantasy just assume that it is dead because GW no longer supports it (and they hear the AoS crowd spewing their agenda). Either way, its a problem that we face now.
50/50 seems like the TO's shouldn't be writing 8th edition off just yet. That's still a huge chunk of their Warhammer crowd and once the initial AoS excitement (or curiosity) is gone, then favor could very well swing back in 8th edition's direction.
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Post by mottdon on Nov 9, 2015 18:07:50 GMT
Also, what list (roughly) did the WE player bring? I know of a few builds for them that can be nasty. Just wondering which one it was.
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Post by KevinC on Nov 9, 2015 18:10:39 GMT
------I was reading this in a library and you made me laugh about loud with the "gamer stench" part.
I don't like that you describe this event as a funeral. When I started playing in later 80s and in the early 90s, tournaments were often small. It wasn't until mid-90s and the first GTs that larger numbers started to turn out.
The way I see it, we are headed back to the 80s/early 90s – which is kind of a good thing. A time when WFB was still not super popular but you could find people to play and even organize small tournaments and mega-battles. I fully embrace the times for WFB ahead of us.
Hopefully, people like Gary and Corey will continue to hold WFB 8th edition tournaments, even if they are small.
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Nov 9, 2015 18:16:15 GMT
Corey made an announcement inviting people to Crossroads. He invited them to come play Kings of War, 9th Age, and Malifaux. I also heard him say that these were his final games of warhammer 8th.
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Post by KevinC on Nov 9, 2015 19:38:31 GMT
Well, at future tournaments, we could always ask organizers if we could add events. For example, a WFB 8th with 20 or even 10 slots, etc. This could continue to build interest.
I see Adepticon does have an 8th edition event.
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Post by KevinC on Nov 9, 2015 20:22:57 GMT
Maybe we can create an 8th edition For Life annual Tournament. Da Boyz and Gary might be willing to support/help organize this.
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Post by Taydan on Nov 9, 2015 21:55:53 GMT
The reason people are quick to state that 8th is dead is due to the player base moving on. Da Boyz was the last time I will be playing WFB. The GT community is amazing. That is because of the players, not the game. When AoS came out the community decided that it would wait to see what happens. After a few months the Masters circuit (of which most GTs in the US are a part of) voted to go the way of Kings of War (the closest real game on the market to WFB). Shortly after that ETC declared they were doing 9th Age (even closer to WFB, but essentially a home-brew game). Each game has its merits, but I personally believe that a game that is actually supported by a company will be a lot more successful than one that is not.
I'll miss the complexity of army design that WFB has, but I won't miss Games Workshop.
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Post by dannytee on Nov 10, 2015 0:59:50 GMT
I'm not sure if every army made it under the light. Perhaps it was just the top half or so. I think that every army did make it under the light. I know that my army made it under the light and my paint score was not in the top half. |
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Post by dannytee on Nov 10, 2015 1:03:59 GMT
The perception that warhammer was over could be heard by a few passers-by. That made me sad. Yes, I forgot to tell you but when I was wearing the EEFL shirt on Saturday I was walking around and a few 40k players were behind me and I overheard them make a comment along the lines of "Eight Edition for Life, well that just isn't going to happen". |
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Post by dannytee on Nov 10, 2015 1:05:23 GMT
Out of curiosity, were the comments that "Fantasy is dead" coming from AoS players or random people in the room? Mainly from 40k players I would say. This was also a 100+ player 40k event. |
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Post by dannytee on Nov 10, 2015 1:34:25 GMT
As Rich said it was a good event and I am glad I could participate. Thank you to the organizers for putting it on. My games were:
1) Empire - big block of knights, 2 cannons, 2 hell blasters, 2 engineers, level 4 on life, steam tank and a few other combat blocks. He had me out ranged badly. Turn 1 and turn 2 he got off dwellers below irresistible which really messed up my hordes. Plus all of the shooting put more of a hurt on my units. I lost badly.
2) WoC - Same one Rich faced game 1. Mainly warriors on foot, also some knights, chimera, demon prince. I got a big win here.
3) Vampires - Caster Manfred on foot which I was not familiar with as I had never faced him. Let me tell you, I learned that Manfred is a great caster. He had a terrorgheist, mortis engine, zombie dragon with blender vampire, big block of skeletons and two big blocks of zombies. The amount of spells he was able to successfully cast each turn was crazy. My shooting was able to take out the terrorgheist and mortis engine. He was able to hide the zombie dragon behind terrain. He then got off a purple sun which took out a bunch of dwarves. The warrior horde which still had 30'ish alive then proceeded to fail a re-rollable 10 leadership test and ran off the table. I still ended up with some decent victory points and finished with a minor loss.
4) Demons - Same army Rich faced his game 2. I got pretty lucky with shooting and killed the demon prince and soul grinder early. This was a blood and glory scenario (game didn't auto end but you got extra VP's for breaking your opponent). The demons still kept the game in question though until the end by throwing everything left into my hammerers unit (with BSB and Lord). In the end I still had 3 hammerers and BSB/Lord but he was close to wiping these out which would have been a huge VP swing. I got a big win.
5) Empire (Cathy) - Same army Rich faced his game 3. We ended up deploying in opposite corners so spent several turns closing the gap. The dwarves held strong in close combat against various charges. Big win.
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Post by dannytee on Nov 10, 2015 1:37:41 GMT
I actually ended with 3rd most battle points but was 6 of 13 overall due to a fairly low paint score as compared to the field.
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