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Post by wilsonthenarc on Nov 11, 2015 17:00:45 GMT
IronBlasters can indeed move and shoot. Combine that with tricky LOS shenanigans and clipping 2mm on one corner base to base of my stuff, and you have a REALLY good shooting unit.
Also, S10. Soo big. Sooooo much strength. Maybe downgrade some Cannons to S7 or S8? The only things I can think of that are T7 or better are other war machines and Tomb King Sphinxes.
S10 is just such overkill. Only static Dorf Cannons should get S10.
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Post by mottdon on Nov 11, 2015 17:49:57 GMT
I kinda like the idea of them only doing D3 wounds. That's enough to take out a war machine crew (unless you buy an Orc Bully if you are an O&G player) or Monstrous Infantry, But most monsters will be able to survive that. Now, if you are unlucky enough to take two cannons to the face...well, then at least you soaked up a lot of their army strength for a round.
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Post by Anton on Nov 11, 2015 18:09:15 GMT
In 9th Age Cannons do D3+1 (D3+2 against flyers). Only a direct hit is S10, the bounce is only S5. One of the best changes they did.
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Post by mottdon on Nov 11, 2015 18:27:46 GMT
That actually sounds really good! And this coming from an Empire and Dwarf player!
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Post by avatarofbugman on Nov 13, 2015 21:08:36 GMT
Will, as to the range guessing, most seasoned gamers in the last rules had little trouble estimating their ranges within 1-2 inches, making guess weapons not really guess weapons. I like the idea of lesser strength cannons and different wound sizes.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Nov 13, 2015 22:00:43 GMT
Will, as to the range guessing, most seasoned gamers in the last rules had little trouble estimating their ranges within 1-2 inches, making guess weapons not really guess weapons. I do agree with that aspect. When I was playing all Dorf, just Dorf, I could say whether it was 21.5 or 21.75 The 8th rules do balance that aspect out, which is more fun for all.
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Post by roughtimes on Nov 13, 2015 22:33:51 GMT
I hate HATE the fact that a cannon will hit the seer and the screaming bell separately.
The end times mounts/riders had combined profiles. Much better.
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Post by dannytee on Nov 15, 2015 2:11:51 GMT
Here is an interesting addition to this discussion. Read the stone thrower rule (pg. 114), "To fire a stone thrower, take the small round (3") template and place it anywhere (with the center hole (added by Errata)) completely within the warmachine's line of sight..." Often the point picked for the stone thrower template is an enemy model. When this is a rank and file unit and you are maximizing the potential hits the template will be placed a few ranks back. Thinking about true line of sight and some of the discussion points above, if you get down and look from the stone thrower's point of view you probably won't be able to actually see this point...
I'm just trying to think from a different perspective here. In the above situation this would really mean that the stone thrower shot is indirect. The other thing this rule doesn't actually talk about is if the location of the template is on the table top because if that is the case then when targeting a mini the table top is always below the mini so it would always be indirect. But nobody plays it this way, I think essentially people play if you can see the unit then you can maximize the template and take a normal shot.
I think based on this, there is somewhat of a mentality that the cannon operates similarly in regards to if you can see a model you can shot it. You are right, it is not rules as written but like I state above I don't think people play the stone thrower or a lot of other rules as rules as written.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Nov 15, 2015 23:28:05 GMT
Most people sight from the crossbar of the stone thrower, which would allow LOS to ranks further back. The rule does not say 'point on the battlefield' so someone's head is a valid target. I like how we play, and that's all that matters.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Nov 15, 2015 23:29:21 GMT
If it becomes an issue, I'll mount all of my war machines on 3" high stilts to maximize LOS.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Nov 16, 2015 2:47:14 GMT
I like how we play, and that's all that matters. Yesssss
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Post by dannytee on Nov 20, 2015 0:53:06 GMT
I like how we play, and that's all that matters. Agreed.
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Post by KevinC on Jan 22, 2016 14:58:22 GMT
Here is an interesting addition to this discussion. Read the stone thrower rule (pg. 114), "To fire a stone thrower, take the small round (3") template and place it anywhere (with the center hole (added by Errata)) completely within the warmachine's line of sight..." Often the point picked for the stone thrower template is an enemy model. When this is a rank and file unit and you are maximizing the potential hits the template will be placed a few ranks back. Thinking about true line of sight and some of the discussion points above, if you get down and look from the stone thrower's point of view you probably won't be able to actually see this point... I'm just trying to think from a different perspective here. In the above situation this would really mean that the stone thrower shot is indirect. The other thing this rule doesn't actually talk about is if the location of the template is on the table top because if that is the case then when targeting a mini the table top is always below the mini so it would always be indirect. But nobody plays it this way, I think essentially people play if you can see the unit then you can maximize the template and take a normal shot. I think based on this, there is somewhat of a mentality that the cannon operates similarly in regards to if you can see a model you can shot it. You are right, it is not rules as written but like I state above I don't think people play the stone thrower or a lot of other rules as rules as written. -------------What I'm trying to point out is that probably every player has been guilty at some point. The biggest problem with True LOS is that players assume they have LOS all the time because in many cases they do. Players should def make sure they can actually see what they are shooting at, and with cannons, it's not about picking a spot on the table – you have to see the point your targeting.
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