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Post by mottdon on Apr 30, 2018 20:28:59 GMT
Well, I just read this on the Warhammer Community site:
"You may be wondering how to balance your forces for matched play games – and we’ve got some great news. Today, we’re releasing an update for Skirmish that includes points for all the new units released this year, allowing you to bring your new Nurgle, Daughters of Khaine and Idoneth Deepkin units to your Skirmish games:"
So, this tells me having a "No points system" doesn't really work. I suppose our 8th system wasn't really that bad, huh? And they've said here that AoS is basically a skirmish game.
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Post by gjnoronh on Apr 30, 2018 21:05:05 GMT
AoS Skirmish is a smaller scale game then AoS proper and has a different force build system.
AoS proper has three ways to set up games Matched Play - using points in the army books downloadable compendium free file or in Generals Hand Book supplement (updates printed points costs) Scenario Play - build forces according to prespecified scenario requirements Open Play - figure out with your opponent what you'd like to field and put it on the table.
AoS was launched with Scenario play and Open play in the main rules and initial releases. They released a points system (Matched Play) with I think Generals Handbook 1 - maybe before then as GW was fairly appreciative of early fan created points systems - one of the first fan created points systems was available on line and that tool was and continues to be on the GW Warhammer Community website now using GW's points system (Scroll Builder)
Matched play is the vast majority of games for AoS in my experience but I'm sure for some local groups open and scenario play are the focus. There is some overlap in the Scenario play and Match Play events now a days. I think it's indeed likely they indeed realized that no points was not making most gamers happy just please note that the points system came out several years ago and fairly early in the AoS era. It's possible they intended a tiered release of no points first followed by points but more likely they misunderstood the degree of angst no points would cause. I listened to a cool (blood bowl I think) podcast interviewing Jervis Johnson and he talked about the AoS release and some of the design philosophy that went into building the new game. He's clearly at heart a guy whose more an Open Play, Scenario Play guy then a hard core tournament guy.
Armies are generally smaller in AoS then WFB 8th but at Da Boyz if I had to guess the average army size was around 80-160 models which is too many to be called skirmish. We had a skaven army Clan Pestilens that was pretty massive.
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Apr 30, 2018 21:26:27 GMT
AoS Skirmish is a smaller scale game then AoS proper and has a different force build system. AoS proper has three ways to set up games Matched Play - using points in the army books downloadable compendium blah, blah, blah Yes bud, we're well aware of the short fall of gaming systems and I'd rather not be bored on whats right or wrong with gaming systems. Balanced games? Name one. Chess? Nope, white has ASF. We're used to fairness, fairness was demonstrated using a point system but even that was floored to some degree. I could dig out many examples but I'm preaching to the choir. IMO GW made a mistake in scrapping a perfectly usable system just to introduce a new model range, I don't play 40K any more but the bits I'm hearing don't sound so good either. Just in case you wanted a little read Link to topicCheers Greg
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Post by mottdon on Apr 30, 2018 22:03:39 GMT
I can't say that I've ever seen an Open Play game since AoS first came out and people started abusing Nagash. "Look! I'm only going to take Nagash!" Top of turn 1: "Now here's the rest of my army...I have more models than you now!" Yeah, people near me got tired of that REAL quick.
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Post by gjnoronh on May 1, 2018 12:49:23 GMT
gregwarhamsters sorry I don't understand your comment. I wasn't comparing or contrasting games or mentioned what was wrong with them? Just clarifying: 1) that Skirmish was a different game (like Kill team vs 40K) 2) that AoS has had a points system for quite some time. Link won't work for me looks like needs to be a member. mottdon I think Open is probably most often played by teens in the basement just getting started. "I've got 24 skaven painted up and you've got 17 skeletons lets do our first AoS game." That's roughly how I got started with WFB and 40K many years ago and even for quite a bit in the first year or so.
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Post by alanthemoderate on May 1, 2018 18:49:34 GMT
I am genuinely confused by the opening post, AoS has had points for years now, of course GW realized that pure Open Play was a mistake. I actually think I have only seen a single case of Open Play since the points were introduced, but it wasn't horribly unbalanced, just more of a 'slay the warlord' thing with a necromancer.
And honestly, this just seems to be hating on AoS in this thread, which I think is a bad move for this community. While it is sad that AoS replaced Warhammer Fantasy, we should be accepting of AoS if nothing else to steal players over to Fantasy (They already have armies after all)
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Post by wilsonthenarc on May 1, 2018 21:08:37 GMT
I am genuinely confused by the opening post Same
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Post by wilsonthenarc on May 1, 2018 21:10:53 GMT
And honestly, this just seems to be hating on AoS in this thread, which I think is a bad move for this community. Whenever I feel like typing out yet another post to flame on AoS - I think "Actions peak louder than words" and I text somebody (like TheREALricksalamone) to set up a time to play some ol' fashioned square based WFB. You are 100% right, haters gonna hate. Don't hate.
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on May 1, 2018 21:17:31 GMT
I hate 9th age.
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Post by mottdon on May 1, 2018 21:49:44 GMT
And I hate AoS. Funny how posts against AoS bring out it's defenders though. Like I slapped their baby or something.
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Post by gregwarhamsters on May 1, 2018 22:22:57 GMT
Just shows there's zero interest in AoS as I'd forgotten about GWs about turn on points.
Either way, its extremely hard to balance any game system
Greg
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on May 1, 2018 22:51:13 GMT
What is this AoS you are speaking of?
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Post by Naitsabes on May 1, 2018 23:19:56 GMT
I hate broccoli. so...I don't eat it or talk about it or follow the newest development in growth and flavors. but, I don't mind if others eat it or even try and explain why it is better than proper good old fashioned red meat.
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Post by mottdon on May 2, 2018 0:55:06 GMT
I hate broccoli. so...I don't eat it or talk about it or follow the newest development in growth and flavors. but, I don't mind if others eat it or even try and explain why it is better than proper good old fashioned red meat. Yeah, but did broccoli replace your favorite food because someone, somewhere say it's better? That's why I hate AoS. I don't really give a damn if others like it or not.
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Post by Naitsabes on May 2, 2018 2:07:35 GMT
nope. red meat is still around. and all those vegetarians can sing their kumbayaya. Admittedly I wish there would be more meat eaters. locally people didn't switch to broccoli. they stopped eating altogether.
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