Post by saniles on Jan 6, 2019 1:28:44 GMT
Carno = "Anti Hammer"
First thing i want to go into is how I see the Carno. Carnos are "Anti Hammers" with 5 S7 attacks they eat heavy cav, and whatever is left the rider can easily deal with. Do not under estimate their abilities; I have had my Carno eat 4 juggernauts in 1 combat. D3 wounds do A LOT of damage, do not underestimate it.
Now to start getting into tactics I like to use the Carno for. Going from simplest to most creative:
A Carno does not have one use, it can be used for many things both offensive and defensive oddly enough.
"Cowboy"
1) A Cowboy on a Carno can be used same as you do a normal cowboy, it’s more expensive but it also does a lot more damage.
"Support Hammer"
2) They work VERY well as a supporting Hammer to a Saurus anvil due to their S7 Thunderstop and Terror, with Blood Roar you can reduce the enemy unit to WS1 quite often, and that means your Saurus are hitting on 3's and getting hit on 5's. Which is something us Lizardmen are not use to :smug:
"The Jackhammer"
3) Next is what I like to call the Jackhammer! If you can get 2 or 3 combats lines up in a row, then you can get the Carno to charge one of the flanks, then you have yourself the most beautiful thing aboutto happen. as it’s your combat you decide where to start, so Start with the unit on the flank that the Carno charged, theoretically with a Carno in the flank you should be able to make him break, and most likely with thunder stop the Carno will have done the most wounds and it will flee over into the next unit, now you pursue with your Carno, and hit the next unit, WHICH YOU HAVE NOT DONE THE COMBAT FOR! This means that the Carno will attack a SECOND TIME in the next combat and if you set it up PERFECTLY then you will massacre the second unit and run into the third! And attack a third time.
"Terror"
4) Terror is your friend, especially with Blood Roar you can force most Ld 8 units to flee just by charging them even if you know you are not going to make the charge. if you get them to flee you once, you can then charge them again with some taradons and as they are already fleeing the only thing they can do is flee more! And if you plan it well enough you can get a unit to run right off the table. It is a bit complicated at the start but it gets easier to do once you get used to how and when to use it.
"Terror Advanced class"
5) Now with the terror you can also do a fun trick which works well against stuff that you have trouble killing i.e. empire knights that all have a 1+ save. Before you force them to take the terror tests, put a unit of flyers behind them, so if when they fail they are forced to flee through your unit forcing a dangerous terrain test.
I forced a unit of 12 Brettonians to do that and 3 died, that’s one less rank for them. And if you really think you can force them to flee then you can put the flyers facing the other way so after the unit flees then the flyers charge again; most likely running them off the table or overrunning them considering they are M 10 with swift stride.
Important note with the Terror tactics if you charge, and the enemy fails there test and flees remember to redirect your charge to the next unit and see if you can get them to flee to!
"BSB & General on Carno"
6) This is personally how i love to play, a lot of people think its useless, but now with our Rippers, having a 18" BSB and leadership bubble for your frenzy tests IS YOUR FRIEND! Do not under estimate how much area you can cover with a 18" bubble, and with M7 you can easily boost the leadership or give BSB support anywhere on the table easily.
"Sneaky trick for 1" free moment and better cannon defense"
7) As a monster the carnosour can pivot for free as much as it wants, and now as it has a long base this means that if you deploy it facing sideways at the end of your deployment zone, on your turn pivot it on the spot to face forwards, and you just gained 1" of free moment because you have not "use any of your movement" you just pivoted which you can do as much as you want! also facing the wide side of your carno at the enemy is good as it makes it much easier for enemy cannons to overshoot/undershoot you as they have only a 50mm deep area to hit instead of a 100mm .
"Target Saturation"
8) What I mean by this is, if you have only 1 carno, EVERYTHING will shoot at that carno and kill it. but if you have a carno and 2 stegadons for example, shooting will start to get divided between them, and there is a much higher chance that all of them survive where as with only 1 carno chances that it survives something like a Dwarven or Empire Gunline is very slim, but the more targets you give the enemy the more they divide fire, and more often then not everything will make it in to combat missing 1 or 2 wounds instead of 1 thing just dieing outright.
Thunder-stomp important thing most people forget
9) One thing i have seen alot of people forgetting or miss understanding is when stomp happens. Stomp has the "Always strikes last" special rule which means that it goes at the same time as great weapons NOT AFTER! So if your Carno gets destroyed by a unit with great weapons the carno still gets his Stomp. which can make a huge difference to combat resolution.
Because of this i run my oldblood with a great weapon, so when i get into challenges just to make extra sure that i get the 5 estra wounds for combat resolution, my carnos thunder-stop and my oldblood go at the same time. (remember in a challenge you can do up to 5 extra wounds but only in the same initiative stage, so if the oldblood kills him at I3 the always strike last thunder-stop will not get to hit even if the oldblood only did 1 extra wound, you loss those extra D6 hits.
"Mitigating Cannons"
This is a very important element to keeping your Carnos alive, to anyone considering running a list with carnos i recommend you read this www.lustria-online.com/threa...to-fight-cannons-updated-with-responds.13048/ Especially A Steaming Kroak's Post he gives a lot of good tips of what you can do.
"The Mind Games"
Last thing i want to explain is not how Carnos "play" but how the Affect the enemy mentally.
They are everything magnets, the enemy will poo themselves and want to kill them as fast as possible. Think of it almost like Frenzy but for the enemy player. This can be used to your advanced because even the most experienced players can get this tunnel vision. This is ideal for your fast units, like Rippers, you can get them behind enemy lines and start causing havoc because all the enemy can think about is trying to kill your Carnos. The next thing he knows you have cleared out most of his supporting units and you have 2 nice melee blocks arriving on his front door untouched.
(i know it sounds simple, or almost too good to be true, but it happens, my first match of the tournament I won because of this, my Carnos did nothing but draw fire and hide and take turns getting hit)
In closing i would like to say that each and every one of the things a Carno can do, another unit can do them better. the reason why i still argue that a Carno is competitive is because it can do ALL of the above.
First thing i want to go into is how I see the Carno. Carnos are "Anti Hammers" with 5 S7 attacks they eat heavy cav, and whatever is left the rider can easily deal with. Do not under estimate their abilities; I have had my Carno eat 4 juggernauts in 1 combat. D3 wounds do A LOT of damage, do not underestimate it.
Now to start getting into tactics I like to use the Carno for. Going from simplest to most creative:
A Carno does not have one use, it can be used for many things both offensive and defensive oddly enough.
"Cowboy"
1) A Cowboy on a Carno can be used same as you do a normal cowboy, it’s more expensive but it also does a lot more damage.
"Support Hammer"
2) They work VERY well as a supporting Hammer to a Saurus anvil due to their S7 Thunderstop and Terror, with Blood Roar you can reduce the enemy unit to WS1 quite often, and that means your Saurus are hitting on 3's and getting hit on 5's. Which is something us Lizardmen are not use to :smug:
"The Jackhammer"
3) Next is what I like to call the Jackhammer! If you can get 2 or 3 combats lines up in a row, then you can get the Carno to charge one of the flanks, then you have yourself the most beautiful thing aboutto happen. as it’s your combat you decide where to start, so Start with the unit on the flank that the Carno charged, theoretically with a Carno in the flank you should be able to make him break, and most likely with thunder stop the Carno will have done the most wounds and it will flee over into the next unit, now you pursue with your Carno, and hit the next unit, WHICH YOU HAVE NOT DONE THE COMBAT FOR! This means that the Carno will attack a SECOND TIME in the next combat and if you set it up PERFECTLY then you will massacre the second unit and run into the third! And attack a third time.
"Terror"
4) Terror is your friend, especially with Blood Roar you can force most Ld 8 units to flee just by charging them even if you know you are not going to make the charge. if you get them to flee you once, you can then charge them again with some taradons and as they are already fleeing the only thing they can do is flee more! And if you plan it well enough you can get a unit to run right off the table. It is a bit complicated at the start but it gets easier to do once you get used to how and when to use it.
"Terror Advanced class"
5) Now with the terror you can also do a fun trick which works well against stuff that you have trouble killing i.e. empire knights that all have a 1+ save. Before you force them to take the terror tests, put a unit of flyers behind them, so if when they fail they are forced to flee through your unit forcing a dangerous terrain test.
I forced a unit of 12 Brettonians to do that and 3 died, that’s one less rank for them. And if you really think you can force them to flee then you can put the flyers facing the other way so after the unit flees then the flyers charge again; most likely running them off the table or overrunning them considering they are M 10 with swift stride.
Important note with the Terror tactics if you charge, and the enemy fails there test and flees remember to redirect your charge to the next unit and see if you can get them to flee to!
"BSB & General on Carno"
6) This is personally how i love to play, a lot of people think its useless, but now with our Rippers, having a 18" BSB and leadership bubble for your frenzy tests IS YOUR FRIEND! Do not under estimate how much area you can cover with a 18" bubble, and with M7 you can easily boost the leadership or give BSB support anywhere on the table easily.
"Sneaky trick for 1" free moment and better cannon defense"
7) As a monster the carnosour can pivot for free as much as it wants, and now as it has a long base this means that if you deploy it facing sideways at the end of your deployment zone, on your turn pivot it on the spot to face forwards, and you just gained 1" of free moment because you have not "use any of your movement" you just pivoted which you can do as much as you want! also facing the wide side of your carno at the enemy is good as it makes it much easier for enemy cannons to overshoot/undershoot you as they have only a 50mm deep area to hit instead of a 100mm .
"Target Saturation"
8) What I mean by this is, if you have only 1 carno, EVERYTHING will shoot at that carno and kill it. but if you have a carno and 2 stegadons for example, shooting will start to get divided between them, and there is a much higher chance that all of them survive where as with only 1 carno chances that it survives something like a Dwarven or Empire Gunline is very slim, but the more targets you give the enemy the more they divide fire, and more often then not everything will make it in to combat missing 1 or 2 wounds instead of 1 thing just dieing outright.
Thunder-stomp important thing most people forget
9) One thing i have seen alot of people forgetting or miss understanding is when stomp happens. Stomp has the "Always strikes last" special rule which means that it goes at the same time as great weapons NOT AFTER! So if your Carno gets destroyed by a unit with great weapons the carno still gets his Stomp. which can make a huge difference to combat resolution.
Because of this i run my oldblood with a great weapon, so when i get into challenges just to make extra sure that i get the 5 estra wounds for combat resolution, my carnos thunder-stop and my oldblood go at the same time. (remember in a challenge you can do up to 5 extra wounds but only in the same initiative stage, so if the oldblood kills him at I3 the always strike last thunder-stop will not get to hit even if the oldblood only did 1 extra wound, you loss those extra D6 hits.
"Mitigating Cannons"
This is a very important element to keeping your Carnos alive, to anyone considering running a list with carnos i recommend you read this www.lustria-online.com/threa...to-fight-cannons-updated-with-responds.13048/ Especially A Steaming Kroak's Post he gives a lot of good tips of what you can do.
"The Mind Games"
Last thing i want to explain is not how Carnos "play" but how the Affect the enemy mentally.
They are everything magnets, the enemy will poo themselves and want to kill them as fast as possible. Think of it almost like Frenzy but for the enemy player. This can be used to your advanced because even the most experienced players can get this tunnel vision. This is ideal for your fast units, like Rippers, you can get them behind enemy lines and start causing havoc because all the enemy can think about is trying to kill your Carnos. The next thing he knows you have cleared out most of his supporting units and you have 2 nice melee blocks arriving on his front door untouched.
(i know it sounds simple, or almost too good to be true, but it happens, my first match of the tournament I won because of this, my Carnos did nothing but draw fire and hide and take turns getting hit)
In closing i would like to say that each and every one of the things a Carno can do, another unit can do them better. the reason why i still argue that a Carno is competitive is because it can do ALL of the above.