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Post by chaosreigns on Aug 4, 2021 20:54:02 GMT
Hey guys,
One of my friends is getting back into Fantasy after a long-ish hiatus, and he just picked up an Empire army secondhand. Here's (approximately) what he's got available to him:
1 Grand Master
1 Wizard 1 Warrior Priest of Sigmar 1 BSB 1 Engineer
Various command models (champions, musicians, standard bearers)
18 Empire Knights w/ lance & shield (some of these are painted as Knights Panther, some as Reiksguard)
39 Swordsmen 19 Spearmen 7 Halberdiers (big blocks of these will just use a front rank of Halberdiers and proxy the rest for now) 19 Greatswords 36 Handgunners 11 Pistoliers
2 Cannons 1 Helblaster Volley Gun 1 Mortar
I did my best to write a decent list with what he has available, but unfortunately I have no experience playing Empire so I need second opinions, here. The Warrior Priest, Captain BSB and Wizard are all supposed to go in the Halberdier unit. The Wizard will be bumped to the second rank (with the other two characters + command in the front rank). Not surprisingly, the Grand Master goes in the unit of Inner Circle Knights. I know Mortars are generally not looked upon favourably, but we have both High Elves and Wood Elves in our meta, and especially against the latter, it seems like it would be a good idea to have some long range shooting capable of hitting the Wood Elves if they try to stay out of range of the Handgunners and Volley Gun.
Edit: I forgot to mention that our gaming group uses a number of house rules, one of which is that hordes have been removed altogether. That's why I wasn't planning on running the Halberdiers 10-wide.
++ End Times (Empire - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.8.2.) [2,496pts] ++- Army Size: Army (0-2999 points) + Lords +Battle Wizard Lord [260pts]: Wizard Level 4 . Magic Items: BRB - Crown of Command, BRB - Dispel Scroll Grand Master [259pts]: Shield . Magic Items: AB - Runefang, BRB - The Other Trickster's Shard + Heroes +Captain of the Empire [141pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Great Weapon, Light Armour . Magic Items: AB - Armour of Meteoric Iron Warrior Priest [115pts]: Great Weapon, Light Armour . Magic Items: BRB - Armour of Silvered Steel + Core +Halberdiers [252pts]: Champion, 37x Halberdiers, Musician, Standard Bearer Handgunners [90pts]: 10x Handgunners Handgunners [90pts]: 10x Handgunners Handgunners [108pts]: 12x Handgunners Knightly Orders Inner Circle [290pts]: 9x Knightly Orders Inner Circle, Lance and Shield . Champion . Musician . Standard Bearer: AB - Steel Standard + Rare +Helblaster Volley Gun [120pts]+ Special +Great Cannon [120pts]Great Cannon [120pts]Mortar [100pts]Pistoliers [90pts]: 5x Pistoliers Pistoliers [90pts]: 5x Pistoliers Reiksguard Knights [251pts]: 8x Reiksguard Knights . Champion . Musician . Standard Bearer: BRB - Gleaming Pennant ++ Total: [2,496pts] ++Created with BattleScribe |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 5, 2021 13:53:05 GMT
Some incoherent remarks:
The Wizard Lord is normally your best asset. He should not be in CC, and therefore always have the option to leave a unit that is about to be attacked. Giving him the Crown contradicts this. Yes, you can put him in the second rank, but once the BSB or WP is dead, he will jump to the front rank. I would drop the Crown and give him the Talisman of Preservation instead.
The OTS is best used on a lone character, since it also affects your own troops - and not just for CC attacks, but also Magic and Shooting. Of course, with the Runefang, there are not that many alternatives. Give the unit he is in the Standard of Discipline for Ld 10. bubble.
Rather than a GW, give the BSB a cheap magic weapon (the Shrieking Blade giving Fear usually comes in handy). Instead of the AoMI, give him FPA, Enchanted Shield, and Dawnstone, for a re-rollable 2+ AS.
I am not too keen on the AoSS either. Consider other options, like the Armour of Destiny + shield, (for 4+/4++) or HA, shield, Dragonhelm, and perhaps the Speculum or a magic weapon.
You could even upgrade him to AL, in which case you might consider dropping the Grand Master and use the extra points elsewhere.
Handgunners are a subpar choice in 8th edition. I am not really a great fan of Greatswords (they are good but too expensive), but they are a better choice than Handgunners. They also have the option for a magic banner (Standard of Discipline, if you take the AL as General and put him in the GS). If you do take Handgunners, make them detachments (mainly for the possibility of being steadfast).
Put a musician in the Pistolier units, to make sure that a feigned flight does not become a real flight.
Drop one of the cannon or the mortar for an Engineer (perhaps + repeater pistol) with the HBVG
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Post by Naitsabes on Aug 5, 2021 16:55:21 GMT
The list is deep end of the pool with that many units. but that is a bit unavoidable with Empire.
my equally incoherent remarks:
- in my opinion the OTS on the Grandmaster seems fine as you won't have wardsaves yourself
- adding an Engineer with the HBVGT is a great call. Against elves I'd keep the mortar and drop a unit of handgunners
- also agree the wizard lord needs to stay away from danger, so no crown. maybe bouncing around between handgunners? Lore of Light for all the buffs would be my choice
- pistoliers will be shot dead rather quickly against elves but then not sure what else you'd put in from the models you have
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 5, 2021 17:03:14 GMT
- in my opinion the OTS on the Grandmaster seems fine as you won't have wardsaves yourself Yes, I forgot the OTS is about ward saves, not armour saves. |
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Post by 1plussave on Aug 5, 2021 19:36:03 GMT
Some comments; Dropping some Reiksguard and running 5 with Stubborn and the Pennant as a flanking unit frees up some points and is probably a better size for them. The remaining knights can bulk up the Inner circle to around 11. For about the same points your Captain can have a 2+ armour and a 4++ ward over his current setup, or the reroll on a 2+ which is usually better return on your investment, similar for the Warrior Priest. Cheap but good saves is the idea. I second the comment on the Wizard and combat, he also needs a lore to center your strategy round, a second wizard as the scroll caddy is also ideal for when your fail to dispel with the big one and need a scroll for the follow up spell. I'd definitely take a second wizard if you aren't taking the Engineer or both. Reliability of magic or shooting helps a lot for the Empire. - in my opinion the OTS on the Grandmaster seems fine as you won't have wardsaves yourself Yes, I forgot the OTS is about ward saves, not armour saves. If only, if only... |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 5, 2021 21:06:08 GMT
1plussave: Regarding the second Wizard, he is constrained by the available models, and I am not sure how lenient his opponents are on the issue of proxies. Otherwise, I would have suggested to use some of the HG as proxies for Archers as a more suitable Wizard bunker, and some as proxies for Crossbowmen.
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Post by chaosreigns on Aug 5, 2021 22:41:59 GMT
For what it's worth our gaming group is extremely lenient about proxies as long as the base size is correct. 
EDIT:
Okay, I revised the list for my friend based on people's recommendations. I figured we would keep a few Handgunners just because, apart from the elves, our meta is very heavily armoured, with myself playing mostly Bretonnia and two Dwarf players besides. If they really suck in the first few games we can always swap them out for archers later on. My friend also just bought a Steam Tank and the Empire wizards box set, so eventually the tank and a second wizard will make their way into these lists once those are assembled (and probably replace the Spearmen). Anyway, what does everyone think? - Army Size: Army (0-2999 points) + Lords +Battle Wizard Lord [270pts]: Lore of Light, Wizard Level 4 . Magic Items: BRB - Dispel Scroll, BRB - Talisman of Preservation Grand Master [259pts]: Shield . Magic Items: AB - Runefang, BRB - The Other Trickster's Shard + Heroes +Captain of the Empire [131pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Full Plate Armour . Magic Items: BRB - Biting Blade, BRB - Dawnstone, BRB - Enchanted Shield Master Engineer [75pts]: Repeater Handgun Warrior Priest [117pts]: Light Armour, Shield . Magic Items: BRB - Armour of Destiny + Core +Halberdiers [339pts]: Champion, 38x Halberdiers, Musician, Standard Bearer . Handgunners: 9x Handgunners Knightly Orders Inner Circle [395pts]: 14x Knightly Orders Inner Circle, Lance and Shield . Champion . Musician . Standard Bearer: BRB - Standard of Discipline Spearmen [270pts]: Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer . 40x Spearmen: 40x Shield + Rare +Helblaster Volley Gun [120pts]+ Special +Great Cannon [120pts]Great Cannon [120pts]Mortar [100pts]Pistoliers [90pts]: 5x Pistoliers Pistoliers [90pts]: 5x Pistoliers ++ Total: [2,496pts] ++Created with BattleScribe |
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Post by acetes on Jan 16, 2022 0:26:01 GMT
I've been playing empire for years. Here are my thoughts:
1. Grand Master is not worth it. Yeah, he makes the brick of knights cool, but that gets me to point 2
2. A brick of 15 knights isn't as great as it seems. a block of 10 IC and a block of 5 normal will give the army more flexibility. I personally would only run the 10 block of IC knights.
Sure, knights don't die easily, but they really aren't the hammer that we'd like them to be.
3. Run a second, lvl 2 wizard, same lore, and have him caddy your dispel scroll.
4. Four artillary seems excessive. and not very friendly, considering how powerful it is in 8th.
-- I'd take 1 cannon, the hellblaster, and the engineer (to give an option to reroll a die for the volleygun) - mortar is neat, but it's only useful against stuff in tshirt armor, and those don't normally run in big blocks unless it certain armies (VC, TK, etc.)
5. Personally, id rather run a swordsmen block in place of the spearmen. Putting a WP in the block can give them hatred & easy to get rerolls to wound (bound spell)
6. A block of greatswords is not as good as a unit of demigryphs, but they are not terrible. Adding a WP to a brick of them is pretty strong.
7. Warrior Priests are a good value imo. channel for magic dice, have useful bound spells, aren't the worst in combat.
id love to hear about the games your friend has played with the army, and what his list looks like now.
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