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Post by frozenfood on Jul 26, 2016 6:18:50 GMT
A classic matchup. This will be my first list in service of fair Bretonnia and I am overwhelmed by the choices and obligations I have before me. Will you have a look at the following list and point out any errors? Also I'm not sure if I have the right ratio of regular knights vs characters I'll try out the Green knight in the next battle, for now it's the Fay Enchantress. I'll be battling a force of Beastmen, whose general has never fielded one of those either so we'll be looking at our Army books a lot LordsThe Fay Enchantress --> Grail knights HeroesPaladin (BSB, Grail Vow, Shield, Barded horse, Virtue of Duty, Sword of might) --> Grail knights Paladin (Shield, Barded horse, Wyrmlance, Ruby Ring, Luckstone) --> solo mini-dragon Paladin (Shield, Questing Vow, Royal pegasus, Gauntlet of the duel, Virtue of Confidence, Dragonhelm, Warrior bane) --> solo flanker Core9 Knights Errant (Champion, BS) 9 Knights of the realm (Champion, BS) 10 Peasant Bowmen --> Trebuchet 1 10 Peasant Bowmen --> Trebuchet 2 10 Peasant Bowmen 11 Peasant Bowmen Special3 Pegasus Knights (Champion) Rare10 Grail Knights (FC, War banner) 2 Field Trebuchet
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Post by KevinC on Jul 26, 2016 10:31:09 GMT
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Post by frozenfood on Jul 26, 2016 11:37:51 GMT
Because I want to play the original game first :-) If it proves to be too difficult or not as much fun, I'm willing to try alternatives. My opponent is also playing the classic Beastmen book although many tourneys give them extra points for being weak.
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Jul 26, 2016 18:37:27 GMT
I second the recommendation of the EEFL Bret book. I never cared for the weird lance formation and the new impact hits make the Bret lance charge very characterful and scary. The new book is the sole reason that I am starting a Bretonnian army. Mercenaries, big blocks of Knights...I can't wait!
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Jul 28, 2016 15:32:55 GMT
I have spent hours (and hours) trying to figure out the best rule for the Bretonnian Charge. Lances? Impact Hits? Fear/ Terror? Multiple ranks?
I always think of the scene on LOTR Two Towers - When Gandalf leads the Rohirrim. Now that's a charge.
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Post by frozenfood on Jul 28, 2016 16:08:54 GMT
When you played against them in the original version, did the lance work?
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Jul 28, 2016 20:30:43 GMT
I remember crushing Bretonnian Knights every time I've played them. Steadfast infantry followed by war machines and counter charges on that huge flank.
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Post by frozenfood on Jul 29, 2016 7:32:42 GMT
The huge flank is an issue..I'm hoping the trebuchets can thin out some beastmen hordes. My main unit has 2+ as and +4 CR each turn so that should be as good as stubborn.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Jul 29, 2016 20:47:28 GMT
Impact hits is a really thematic rule and ends up being just powerful enough in a game. Here's why I don't like it: Why should Bret Knights get impact hits versus any other mounted human knights in the game? What actual thing / weapon / whatever to they do or have? My answer is - Nothing. Brets: your fancy polished spurs are weak.
Removing steadfast on the charge seems like an elegant answer. At a glance, it doesn't seem overpowered. We tried it. It is overpowered. A block of 10 knights shouldn't be able to wreck 50 medium to medium-good infantry that easy. But removing steadfast changes the whole feel of an 8th game - it's too damn good.
Re-roll hits on the charge? Well now they're just ASF Elfy types. Harumph. So sir I don't like it.
My favorite answer is a quirky one. A tilt. The knights charge, a round of combat is fought. If the Knights win, they may elect to make a pass through move. That mean's no break test for the enemy. The Knight unit gets to make a move of D6" forward from the back edge of the unit they fought. This represents the knights lowering their lances for once good pass and spurring their valiant steed onward so as to not become engaged in a protracted quagmire of a contest. They charge, they hit, and the pass by to unengage.
Lots of rule mucks with that free move though. Just trying to represent the spirit of the joust!
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Post by KevinC on Jul 30, 2016 1:31:37 GMT
Impact hits is a really thematic rule and ends up being just powerful enough in a game. Here's why I don't like it: Why should Bret Knights get impact hits versus any other mounted human knights in the game? What actual thing / weapon / whatever to they do or have? My answer is - Nothing. Brets: your fancy polished spurs are weak. ---------As Rich stated, I feel like the elegant answer is Impact Hits as described in the current EEFL playtest list. One, it is not an overload with several special rules. And two, they do become scary knowing they have such a potent charge – if they are 6 wide, it's like they are being supported by a chariot that rolled a 6 on impact hits. To answer your question, Bretonnian Knights are renowned as the finest knights in the world and they wield lances in a superior manner to everyone else. Similar to how Wood Elves are the finest archers, even amongst other Elves.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Jul 31, 2016 3:16:20 GMT
Watch out for Bestigor!!
Normal beastman infantry should have trouble denting the knights but a unit of Bestigor will eat them up (even grail knights). Only charge bestigor from the flanks or with overwhelming force if it is a signifint unit.
Any ideas what you're up against? I really like Beastmen
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jul 31, 2016 3:22:24 GMT
Impact hits is a really thematic rule and ends up being just powerful enough in a game. Here's why I don't like it: Why should Bret Knights get impact hits versus any other mounted human knights in the game? What actual thing / weapon / whatever to they do or have? My answer is - Nothing. Brets: your fancy polished spurs are weak. ---------As Rich stated, I feel like the elegant answer is Impact Hits as described in the current EEFL playtest list. One, it is not an overload with several special rules. And two, they do become scary knowing they have such a potent charge – if they are 6 wide, it's like they are being supported by a chariot that rolled a 6 on impact hits. To answer your question, Bretonnian Knights are renowned as the finest knights in the world and they wield lances in a superior manner to everyone else. Similar to how Wood Elves are the finest archers, even amongst other Elves. The problem with the elf example is that elves just have a higher BS, their arrows themselves are no better. Brettonian knights with better WS represents what you are saying much better. I like the list, however.
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Post by frozenfood on Jul 31, 2016 7:23:14 GMT
Watch out for Bestigor!! Normal beastman infantry should have trouble denting the knights but a unit of Bestigor will eat them up (even grail knights). Only charge bestigor from the flanks or with overwhelming force if it is a signifint unit. Any ideas what you're up against? I really like Beastmen Bestigor have great weapons? Thanks for the warning. I have no idea what I'm up against since he has never played the army before :-)
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Post by grandmasterwang on Jul 31, 2016 16:57:38 GMT
Watch out for Bestigor!! Normal beastman infantry should have trouble denting the knights but a unit of Bestigor will eat them up (even grail knights). Only charge bestigor from the flanks or with overwhelming force if it is a signifint unit. Any ideas what you're up against? I really like Beastmen Bestigor have great weapons? Thanks for the warning. I have no idea what I'm up against since he has never played the army before :-) Indeed so strength 6 and -3 to saves. So knights will have low saves and be wounded on a 2+..... what makes them really scary is primal fury. Sure they will strike last and you will kill a bunch (5+ bestigor armor save) if they have numbers left watch out. Primal fury means if they pass a leadership test they effectively have hatred (rerolls to hit) and if they roll a double 1 get frenzy too. So basically with WS4 and rerolls they will hit the knights and with strength 6 they will hurt the knights! I personally use a unit of 19 (all i have unfortunately) Khornegor (Glottkin rules for beastmen marks of chaos) as my hammer/can opener unit for beastmen. If they get into combat with any numbers left they are absolutely devastating. Khornegor are bestigor with mark of Khorne so frenzy. 5 wide with full command.... they pump out 16 Strength 6 hits most likely with rerolls to hit if 10 survive to fight.... that is some serious choppage! You have been warned.... trebuchet priority aim initiate!
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Post by frozenfood on Jul 31, 2016 18:17:47 GMT
I have the feeling that nine trebuchets would be preferable :-D
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