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Post by bierbaron on Aug 26, 2022 14:23:27 GMT
Let's say my unit successfully pursues or overruns into a new, unengaged enemy unit, so that the ensuing combat will be resolved in the opponents turn.
In his turn, the opponent charges my unit that has overrun.
On page 58 of the rulebook it states, that the pursuers will still count as charging in the following turn.
So far, so good.
Let's assume my pursuing and attacking unit is a unit of knights with lances, does the strength bonus also apply for attacks against the opponents unit that attacked later? It does not specify in the rulebook that the "counts as charging" part only applies against the unit into which the pursuers ran, but rather for the pursuing unit as a whole.
My conclusion is, that the pursuing unit counts as charging even against enemy unit that has charged themselves in the following turn, but I can see the argument, that charging bonuses should only count against the initially charged unit, but only from a "makes sense" view, not from RAW unleass I am missing something.
How is it played correctly?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 26, 2022 16:17:48 GMT
Here is one we prapred earlier. Yes. The rule even refers to a lance's S bonus. BRB p. 58: "In the following turn's combat phase, the pursuers will still count as charging. This might result in both sides having charging units in the same fight, in which case the charging units on both sides will get the normal bonuses conferred by charging ( e.g. causing impact hits, benefiting from a lance's Strength bonus, etc., and other bonuses described later in this Rules section). Also, both sides will get the +1 combat resolution bonus, which will effectively cancel each other out." BRB p. 90: "A lance is only used in a turn in which the wielder charged into combat. In subsequent turns (or if the wielder did not charge) the model uses its hand weapon." Unless specified otherwise, - All R&F models in a unit must use the same weapon. - If you have a special CC weapon, you must use this instead of your hand weapon. - You get +2 S when using the lance (a special CC weapon) - You use the lance in the turn you charge - This also applies to the CC from a charge as a result of pursuit/overrun As it is not specified otherwise, all R&F models in the unit must use the lance in the turn they charge (including pursuit/overrun) and will therefore get +2S in any CC (front, flanks and rear) they are involved in.
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Post by bierbaron on Aug 26, 2022 18:50:39 GMT
Thank you for this reference!
Extrapolating from that, that means that an overrunning chariot can distribute impact hits on the unit that has charged it in the subsequent turn? Even in the flank or back?
Could make a difference when the newly charging unit is softer than the initial target.
But surely feels weird...
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Post by thegoat on Aug 26, 2022 19:48:08 GMT
But surely feels weird... You can make a house rule that charging bonus/attacks due to pursuit into a new enemy, only work when attacking targets to the front of the unit that pursued. I think it is within the spirit of the game. But FvonSigmaringen answer above is certainly correct the way the rules are written. |
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Post by rahotep75 on Aug 26, 2022 20:18:08 GMT
Thank you for this reference! Extrapolating from that, that means that an overrunning chariot can distribute impact hits on the unit that has charged it in the subsequent turn? Even in the flank or back? Could make a difference when the newly charging unit is softer than the initial target. But surely feels weird... Impact hits are split evenly between enemy units in base contact (randomizing spares). Weirdly enough, it only specifies base contact and does not specify where in base contact you need to be. |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 26, 2022 21:32:06 GMT
BRB p. 71 (updated): "If the model with Impact Hits is itself charged, or is fighting in a second or subsequent round of combat, then no Impact Hits are inflicted” (Italics mine).
So, only the units that were charged by the chariot pursuit/overrun can be affected.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 27, 2022 6:25:08 GMT
As it happens, this is explicitly confirmed by an FAQ on the similar case of a Counter Charge.
The Empire Official Update Version 1.2, p.1:
Q: If an enemy chariot charges a Regimental Unit and one or more of its Detachments makes a successful Counter Charge, does the chariot still get to make Impact Hits? (p30)
A: Yes, though the chariot’s Impact Hits can only be assigned to the Regimental Unit.
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Post by bierbaron on Aug 27, 2022 16:02:46 GMT
Amazing, thank you! Great find of all relevant information on this topic!
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 29, 2022 11:26:31 GMT
We serve to please and please to serve.  |
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Post by DiscoQing on Aug 29, 2022 21:57:50 GMT
Just to throw a curve ball, if you resurrect models in the magic phase after having charged/pursued in to a fresh enemy... (eg. Regrowth / Undead);
Those models don't count as charging, so wouldn't be able to use lances/impact hits etc.
At least that's how I remember it!
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Post by thegoat on Aug 29, 2022 23:37:47 GMT
Just to throw a curve ball, if you resurrect models in the magic phase after having charged/pursued in to a fresh enemy... (eg. Regrowth / Undead); Those models don't count as charging, so wouldn't be able to use lances/impact hits etc. At least that's how I remember it! In your example, the magic phase when you resurrect the models is in the following player turn from the close combat phase when the overrun happens (must have been your opponent's turn). So I kind of see why the newly resurrected models might not count as charging. Is this laid out in a FAQ? |
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Post by DiscoQing on Aug 30, 2022 0:49:32 GMT
Can also happen just from a "normal charge, then resurrect".
Yeah, must've been in the BRB.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 30, 2022 7:46:32 GMT
BRB Official Update Version 1.9, p.13:
Q: If models are resurrected in a unit that has charged that turn, do the resurrected models count as having charged? (Reference)
A: No, but remember that the unit will still count as having charged when working out the combat result.
Hardly seems the most logical decision (as it is the unit that charges), but it is what it is. The curve ball does not hit anything, though, since it is irrelevant for the issue at hand. It applies not just to normal charges too, as you point out, but equally to models that make attacks to the front. And as always, unless specifically stated otherwise, normal rules apply. The FAQ specifically states otherwise for a specific category of models. Hence, the normal rules do not apply for these models.
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