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Post by grandmasterwang on Oct 31, 2022 5:51:52 GMT
Attached are rules. Is the Coven Throne leadershop for the purpose of this the Vampire riding it? Or the 7 of the Hand Maidens? Coven Throne itself has no leadership. So a Vampire Lord would be 10 for the test and a normal Vampire 7 as per their profile. If mounted by a normal Vampire (ld 7) but within 12 of a Vampire Lord could it be the Ld10 from Inspiring presence? For the enemy unit's leadership is this their inspiring presence adjusted leadership? Bsb doesn't allow rerolls of this correct? As it's not a standard leadership test, even though it uses Leadership. Would spells that affect Leadership affect this? Ie Doom n Darkness. Vampire Power -Aura of Dark Majesty (-1 enemy leadership within 6" - would make this more effective correct?  |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 31, 2022 8:27:11 GMT
Although a chariot has several characteristics, it is treated as a single model. For Ld tests, you use the Ld of the crew. BRB p. 86 states "We assume the crew to be in complete control of the beasts that pull the chariot, so the beasts' Leadership is never used," but in most cases, the beasts do not have a Ld value anyway.
So, on its own, the Coven Throne uses the Ld of the Handmaiden. If ridden by a character, it uses the highest (usually that of the rider). In both cases, you (and your opponent) are allowed to use Inspiring Presence, and then must apply any boni or mali that may be in effect.
As you say, Battle of Wills is not a Ld test, and cannot therfeore benefit form the BSB's Hold Your Ground special rule.
BRB Official Update Version 1.9, p.11:
Q: Do units benefit from their General’s Inspiring Presence for the purposes of spells that use Leadership, such as Spirit Leech or Okkam’s Mindrazor? (p107)
A: Yes.
BRB Official Update Version 1.9, p.13:
Q. If an enemy unit is affected by the Doom and Darkness spell, and the unit is within the general’s Inspiring Presence radius, does the Leadership value conferred by Inspiring Presence suffer the modifier even if the General is not affected? (Reference)
A: Yes.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Oct 31, 2022 9:56:58 GMT
Although a chariot has several characteristics, it is treated as a single model. For Ld tests, you use the Ld of the crew. BRB p. 86 states "We assume the crew to be in complete control of the beasts that pull the chariot, so the beasts' Leadership is never used," but in most cases, the beasts do not have a Ld value anyway. So, on its own, the Coven Throne uses the Ld of the Handmaiden. If ridden by a character, it uses the highest (usually that of the rider). In both cases, you (and your opponent) are allowed to use Inspiring Presence, and then must apply any boni or mali that may be in effect. As you say, Battle of Wills is not a Ld test, and cannot therfeore benefit form the BSB's Hold Your Ground special rule. BRB Official Update Version 1.9, p.11: Q: Do units benefit from their General’s Inspiring Presence for the purposes of spells that use Leadership, such as Spirit Leech or Okkam’s Mindrazor? (p107) A: Yes. BRB Official Update Version 1.9, p.13: Q. If an enemy unit is affected by the Doom and Darkness spell, and the unit is within the general’s Inspiring Presence radius, does the Leadership value conferred by Inspiring Presence suffer the modifier even if the General is not affected? (Reference) A: Yes. Appreciate the response. Coven Throne unfortunately cannot be taken alone, only as a mount which is why I thought maybe the Handmaidens leadership might be used over a general within 12 or even a lord riding it. So basically RAW if it's within 12" of a Vampire Lord general (inspiring presence) or riden by a Vampire Lord the Coven Throne would be equally effective for the purposes of this Battle of Wills wouldn't you say? I'm pondering builds/playing options with it being ridden by a normal Vampire (ld 7) that still get max benefit from this unique ability. Also that way it comes from the Hero allowance, not the Lord allowances. I'm thinking best possible case scenario for the Coven Thone would be Death Magic along with Aura of Dark majesty. I wish there was the option to take an unridden one with just the hand maidens. |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 31, 2022 14:35:47 GMT
Yes, that set-up would be equally effective. Being saintly and righteous, and, therefore, an Empire player, I cannot give advise on how to use it, but there is this small tactica for it. |
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Post by thezildo on Nov 1, 2022 2:33:41 GMT
Although a chariot has several characteristics, it is treated as a single model. For Ld tests, you use the Ld of the crew. BRB p. 86 states "We assume the crew to be in complete control of the beasts that pull the chariot, so the beasts' Leadership is never used," but in most cases, the beasts do not have a Ld value anyway. So, on its own, the Coven Throne uses the Ld of the Handmaiden. If ridden by a character, it uses the highest (usually that of the rider). In both cases, you (and your opponent) are allowed to use Inspiring Presence, and then must apply any boni or mali that may be in effect. As you say, Battle of Wills is not a Ld test, and cannot therfeore benefit form the BSB's Hold Your Ground special rule. BRB Official Update Version 1.9, p.11: Q: Do units benefit from their General’s Inspiring Presence for the purposes of spells that use Leadership, such as Spirit Leech or Okkam’s Mindrazor? (p107) A: Yes. BRB Official Update Version 1.9, p.13: Q. If an enemy unit is affected by the Doom and Darkness spell, and the unit is within the general’s Inspiring Presence radius, does the Leadership value conferred by Inspiring Presence suffer the modifier even if the General is not affected? (Reference) A: Yes. Appreciate the response. Coven Throne unfortunately cannot be taken alone, only as a mount which is why I thought maybe the Handmaidens leadership might be used over a general within 12 or even a lord riding it. So basically RAW if it's within 12" of a Vampire Lord general (inspiring presence) or riden by a Vampire Lord the Coven Throne would be equally effective for the purposes of this Battle of Wills wouldn't you say? I'm pondering builds/playing options with it being ridden by a normal Vampire (ld 7) that still get max benefit from this unique ability. Also that way it comes from the Hero allowance, not the Lord allowances. I'm thinking best possible case scenario for the Coven Thone would be Death Magic along with Aura of Dark majesty. I wish there was the option to take an unridden one with just the hand maidens. Remember that aura of dark majesty is cumulative so if you had the vampire on the coven throne with aura and the vampire load that is near by enough to give Ld 10 with aura and both within 6” of the attacking unit, then it would be a -2 LD modifier to your opponent. Pretty niche, but a possibility none the less. |
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Post by 1plussave on Nov 1, 2022 22:26:57 GMT
The rule is: "within 6" of one OR MORE vampires with Aura of Dark Majesty..." it does not stack by its own rules. |
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Post by IbnSeesAll on Nov 2, 2022 10:37:34 GMT
If you're feeling brave you can also take a Necromancer on a Corpse Cart and use Shadow magic (on the Vampire) for some Smoke and Mirrors shenanigans
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