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Post by thegoat on Feb 9, 2023 17:25:55 GMT
The clarification is from Tomb Kings army book page 28, section "The Hierophant". Following your train of thought, Arkhan could NEVER be the Hierophant if he's useing the Lore of Death. [Warhammer Armies: Tomb Kings pp28, The Heirophant, second para " The Hierophant must use the Lore of Nehekhara"] Making this whole thread redundant. However, Arkhan's rule IS clarified ",even if he is your army's Hierophant" So, as there is no clarification to Khatep's Grand Hierophant of Khemri rule, we interpret it no different than as is written. Arkhan's rule adds an exception to the general rules for choosing the Hierophant. Khatep's rule does no such thing. Khatep's rule is actually a restriction placed on you the player requiring the player to choose Khatep as the Hierophant. But there is no allowance to NOT comply with the general rules for choosing the Hierophant. If Khatep's rule said, "Do not choose the army Hierophant in the normal manner. Khatep is always the army Hierophant.", then it would be as you state. But that is not how the rule is written.
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Post by johngg on Feb 9, 2023 18:30:30 GMT
Well lets agree to disagree.
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Post by DiscoQing on Feb 9, 2023 21:02:56 GMT
WHY IS THIS THREAD STILL GOING, I'VE ALREADY RULED IT.
"no one will care who the heirophant is in this awful army" 😂
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Post by johngg on Feb 10, 2023 10:10:58 GMT
WHY IS THIS THREAD STILL GOING, I'VE ALREADY RULED IT. "no one will care who the heirophant is in this awful army" 😂 I only have 212 posts until GOD STATUS!!!! Jokes aside, You're right. AND who would put Khatep and Arkhan in the same army anyway?! Unless.... NAGASH....!!!!!!!
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Post by DiscoQing on Feb 10, 2023 11:26:50 GMT
Haha 🤣
Yeah, don't they all hate Arkhan?
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Post by johngg on Feb 10, 2023 12:35:43 GMT
Haha 🤣 Yeah, don't they all hate Arkhan? EXACTLY!!
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Post by KevinC on Feb 10, 2023 17:12:14 GMT
I'm not understanding the opposing argument. Khatep rules state he must be the army Hierophant. There is nothing that can override that. If your army includes everyone single unit from every army in the the WFB game, Khatep will still be the army Hierophant and you cannot nominate another one. Khatep must be the army Hierophant. So you must choose your army such that he may be selected as the army Hierophant. That means don't include another candidate with a higher magic level, ie. Arkhan. -------I understand what you're saying now. However, no one plays that way. If you have a model that must be the army general and you also include a character with higher leadership, the model who's rules state that he must be the army general - overrides the highest LD requirement. A LD10 BSB still can't be the army general even if all other characters are LD9 (and you can have an LD9 general in this case). Your understanding above would apply to Settra. He can be the Hierophant, but if you include higher level wizards he cannot be the Hierophant. Khatep MUST be the army Hierophant (and even though it doesn't state it - regardless of other requirements). In all official GW publications, battle reports, prior editions of WFB, etc. Warhammer rules have never been officially interpreted in the manner you are suggesting. For example, the BSB is you have a LD 10 BSB, it does not mean your General must also be LD10 (because of the highest LD rule). Regarding Khatep (and I know lore is separate from rules), he is the Grand Hierophant of Khemri, the oldest and wisest of all Liche Priests....if he's in your army, no other Liche is taking the role of hierophant.
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Post by thegoat on Feb 10, 2023 17:46:36 GMT
Khatep must be the army Hierophant. So you must choose your army such that he may be selected as the army Hierophant. That means don't include another candidate with a higher magic level, ie. Arkhan. -------I understand what you're saying now. However, no one plays that way. If you have a model that must be the army general and you also include a character with higher leadership, the model who's rules state that he must be the army general - overrides the highest LD requirement. A LD10 BSB still can't be the army general even if all other characters are LD9 (and you can have an LD9 general in this case). Your understanding above would apply to Settra. He can be the Hierophant, but if you include higher level wizards he cannot be the Hierophant. Khatep MUST be the army Hierophant (and even though it doesn't state it - regardless of other requirements). In all official GW publications, battle reports, prior editions of WFB, etc. Warhammer rules have never been officially interpreted in the manner you are suggesting. For example, the BSB is you have a LD 10 BSB, it does not mean your General must also be LD10 (because of the highest LD rule). I don't think your analogy works. The main rule book explicitly states the BSB is not eligible to be general. So there is no conflict if the BSB has a higher LD charismatic. Regarding Khatep (and I know lore is separate from rules), he is the Grand Hierophant of Khemri, the oldest and wisest of all Liche Priests....if he's in your army, no other Liche is taking the role of hierophant. I agree 100% from the fluff angle Khatep should be Hierophant irregardless of who else is in the army. And that is how I would propose to house rule it if it ever actually came up with my group. But the reality is the rule is poorly written and does not give him precedence over Arkhan.
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Post by johngg on Feb 11, 2023 11:44:13 GMT
...And that is how I would propose to house rule it Ahh.. Common Sense, <doffs cap> Haven't seen you for a while, how have you been?
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Post by thegoat on Feb 11, 2023 12:38:52 GMT
...And that is how I would propose to house rule it Ahh.. Common Sense, <doffs cap> Haven't seen you for a while, how have you been? Common sense rarely has a place in a discussion about rules written by Games Workshop.
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Post by KevinC on Feb 11, 2023 15:09:31 GMT
-------I understand what you're saying now. However, no one plays that way. If you have a model that must be the army general and you also include a character with higher leadership, the model who's rules state that he must be the army general - overrides the highest LD requirement. A LD10 BSB still can't be the army general even if all other characters are LD9 (and you can have an LD9 general in this case). Your understanding above would apply to Settra. He can be the Hierophant, but if you include higher level wizards he cannot be the Hierophant. Khatep MUST be the army Hierophant (and even though it doesn't state it - regardless of other requirements). In all official GW publications, battle reports, prior editions of WFB, etc. Warhammer rules have never been officially interpreted in the manner you are suggesting. For example, the BSB is you have a LD 10 BSB, it does not mean your General must also be LD10 (because of the highest LD rule). I don't think your analogy works. The main rule book explicitly states the BSB is not eligible to be general. So there is no conflict if the BSB has a higher LD charismatic. Regarding Khatep (and I know lore is separate from rules), he is the Grand Hierophant of Khemri, the oldest and wisest of all Liche Priests....if he's in your army, no other Liche is taking the role of hierophant. I agree 100% from the fluff angle Khatep should be Hierophant irregardless of who else is in the army. And that is how I would propose to house rule it if it ever actually came up with my group. But the reality is the rule is poorly written and does not give him precedence over Arkhan. ----------------Well, GW states all the time they write rules based on the model design and the lore. So, it makes sense in a case like this to infer that that intent was that Khatep is the High Hierophant and if he's in your army than no other Liche may be the Hierophant. It's like Settra, why does he rules state he must be the army general? Because in his lore he is the High King of all the Land of the Dead. It doesn't make sense to get all hung up on a particular wording of rules when you have information to infer the intent of the designers. The tough rules questions are the ones where you can only rely on the wording without reference to anything else. In the case of Khatep, the intent seems pretty clear, regardless of the exact wording of rules.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Feb 11, 2023 15:55:41 GMT
..maybe if someone sends this to GW it will prompt them to make a Khatep model for The Old World ...
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Post by KevinC on Feb 11, 2023 17:06:56 GMT
..maybe if someone sends this to GW it will prompt them to make a Khatep model for The Old World ... -----------I'd bet its in the works. The Tomb King armies in TOW will be based on Settra and the armies of Khemri. Khatep is certainly involved in that...
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pete
New Member
Posts: 29
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Post by pete on Feb 12, 2023 21:23:46 GMT
So is Arkhan, equipped with The Liber Mortis, immune to the Power Drain miscast result?
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Feb 12, 2023 23:22:00 GMT
So is Arkhan, equipped with The Liber Mortis, immune to the Power Drain miscast result? Partially. Tomb Kings FAQ: Q: If Arkhan the Black loses one or more Wizard levels whilst he has the Liber Mortis, what happens? (p57)
A: His Wizard level will be reduced (keep a track of this) and he will lose the corresponding number of spells. However, as long as he still has the Liber Mortis, he counts as Wizard level 5 when casting and dispelling.
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