|
|
Post by brigada75 on Aug 7, 2023 13:18:01 GMT
Just a question!
In close combat, against a mounted monster, does both of them have to make an initiative test against the Medusa gaze?
|
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 7, 2023 13:49:04 GMT
The "Avert Your Gaze!" special rule affects "enemy models in base contact" (DE AB p. 48). Since ridden monsters are "a single model" (BRB p. 105), both rider and mount will have to test, if the model is in base contact.
|
|
|
|
Post by caradryan on Aug 7, 2023 21:26:48 GMT
Not very convinced by your rules reading: isn't Avert Your Gaze a magical special attack (DE AB p.48), and not a Template hit, against "a single model"? If you attack a ridden monster, single model with special rules of two separated profiles (I guess, in this case, you 'generate' one single attack for a single model in base contact), so you have to choose against who you bring your attack, Knight or Monster (BRB p. 106).
Just to understand well what you mean, can you tell me about another example of the same mechanic? Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by rahotep75 on Aug 8, 2023 13:45:20 GMT
From the Skaven FAQ:
Q: When a model with a Plague Censer causes a wound on a ridden
monster or other model with separate components, how is the damage
distributed? (p46)
A: Take a Toughness test with the best Toughness value
available to the ridden monster/chariot/multiple statline model
and then if the test is failed, randomise the wound as you would
for a missile hit.
Models with multiple values for a characteristic always test on the highest value available to the model, unless stated otherwise. The Skaven FAQ suggests that the ridden monster would take the test using the highest initiative and then you would randomize the who takes the S4 hit.
|
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 8, 2023 13:55:11 GMT
caradryan : The attack in question is neither a shooting, nor, for that matter, a close combat attack, but the result of a failed Initiative test, effected by the special rule. Unless specifically stated otherwise, any effect that affects a model consisting of rider and mount affects both rider and mount. This general rule is confirmed at least for the similar "Dweller Belows" by Skaven Official Update Version 1.7, p. 6: Q: If the Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace is struck by a spell such as Pit of Shades or Dwellers Below, does the rider test separately from the Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace to see whether they are destroyed? (p43 & p48) A: Yes. Note that, while Pit of Shades uses a template, Dwellers Below does not. Edit: For what it is worth (sometimes not much), here is the answer of Swedish Comp:
|
|
|
|
Post by caradryan on Aug 8, 2023 14:53:30 GMT
I understand these readings, although I feel pretty familiar the Skaven Censor mechanic with the Gaze, testing as well as in many other contexts on the higher skill of the Ridden Monster as basic general rule, instead of the spell mechanics you report, also the answer of Swedish Comp could be reasonable (but not official).
Yes, It is definetely not a Shooting Attack, whenever in HtH phase, but it does count on CR. I'm a little puzzled about yet.
|
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 8, 2023 15:46:32 GMT
I am not sure it should count towards CR. The Impact Hits and Breath Weapon special rule specifically state that they are close combat attacks and that Wounds caused do count towards CR - Avert Your Gaze! does not.
Perhaps the difference with the Plague Censer is exactly that its attacks are also close combat attacks, the Wounds counting towards combat resolution. Either that or the Skaven FAQ could not make up their mind what the general mechanic is supposed to be...
|
|
|
|
Post by caradryan on Aug 8, 2023 16:29:24 GMT
I understand what you mean... still thinking which mechanic is reasonable and similar to the Gaze the most.
|
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 8, 2023 16:34:35 GMT
Oh, I agree: the mechanic is reasonable - they both are. Best to discuss beforehand with your opponent, or dice it off.
|
|
