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Post by st0mach on Aug 28, 2023 9:38:14 GMT
Hi guys and thanks for your time.
We ran into the following situation while playing a 1000 points battle this weekend: A unit of Ogre Bulls (two models) charged a unit of Dwarven Longbeards and fought that unit in close combat. The dwarves killed one of the two remaining ogres, leaving the ogre unit with only their standard bearer. The dwarves won the melee on points and the last ogre failed his break test. This immediately killed him, being a standard bearer, due to the "Last Stand" rule.
Now my question: Is the dwarf unit allowed to pursue afterwards, or is there no pursuit movement since the ogre unit was wiped out on the spot before it can be pursued?
We did not quite agree on this, but went for the second option at that moment.
It would be great if you could clear this up for us.
Thank you and happy wargaming!
Marvin
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Post by DiscoQing on Aug 28, 2023 10:09:39 GMT
You can pursue.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 28, 2023 13:49:52 GMT
You can overrun.
BRB p. 58: "If a unit charges into combat and, by the end of that round of close combat, all its enemies have been wiped out as the result of the combat (rather than the pursuit) the unit can choose to make a pursuit move, even with nobody left alive to pursue. This is an overrun move and represents the unit surging forwards, hungry to find more enemies to fight.
An overrun is essentially a special pursuit move. When making an overrun, the victorious unit moves 2D6" directly forwards, as if they were pursuing a fleeing enemy to their front All other rules governing pursuit moves, such as intervening units and terrain, apply to overruns."
Note also BRB Official Update Version 1.9, p.8:
Q: If a unit charges into combat and, on the turn it charges, the last of the enemy unit it is fighting are removed as casualties due to Daemonic Instability, the Unstable special rule, Cornered Rats or as a result of a War Machine failing its Break test, does the charging unit get to make an Overrun move? (p58). A: Yes.
Q: If I charge an enemy and they are wiped out before the Close Combat phase, can I choose to either Overrun or Reform From Victory? If I can, when does this occur? (p58) A: Yes. This occurs at the start of the Close Combat phase before any blows have been struck.
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Post by st0mach on Aug 28, 2023 14:37:43 GMT
Thank you both for your answers. @discoqing : I don't want to sound disrespectful, but where do i find this rule in the BRB? I know that the BRB p.94 states: "[...]The victorious enemy can still overrun or pursue as normal." But a normal pursue would begin with the fleeing enemy to roll for their fleeing distance and after that the pursuing unit would roll for pursuing distance. But since there is no unit left to flee, how could the enemy unit pursue? FvonSigmaringen : Thank you for your elaborate answer, i have always enjoyed reading your answers to other questions here on the forum. But the Dwarves can't overrun, because they were charged that turn by the Ogers. After both units engaged in close combat, there was only one miniature left in the Ogre Unit: the Standard Bearer. And since he lost the combat and failed his break test, he was immediately removed as a casuality because of the "Last Stand" rule. After that, the Dwarves were left behind without any physical miniature to pursue. Are they still allowed to pursue, even if the enemy unit was removed from the game before any pursuit dice were rolled?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 28, 2023 15:48:56 GMT
My apologies - I somehow read over that. Quandoque bonus dormitat Fidelis. In that case, they can only reform.
BRB p. 54: "Of course, if one side has been completely wiped out in the fight, the other side is automatically the winner. In such cases the unit automatically restrains pursuit and reforms (as discussed on page 57)."
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Post by st0mach on Aug 28, 2023 18:02:11 GMT
Thank you so much for your answer. This clearifies our situation perfectly.
It boggles my mind that such little, but extremly imortant notes always evade my sight.
Best wishes!
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 29, 2023 15:35:13 GMT
It boggles my mind that such little, but extremly imortant notes always evade my sight. It happens to the best of us. Why, as just demonstrated once again, it even happens to me...
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