The Glorious Victories of Khazbar the Magnificent (Beastmen)

For games 1-4 I used the following list. My thoughts on it are below the list.


I 'ummed and ahhed' for ages on which army to take. The misinformation posts, although obviously a bit tongue in cheek, were written as I genuinely couldn't decide what to go with. Writing down a bit on each army was meant to help me decide but probably made the task more difficult! If I could have entered twice into the second stage, using different armies, I would have done.

It probably will come as no surprise though, that in the end I went with the Beastmen, if only because they are what i've been working on recently and are the latest toys.

This choice of army will automatically put me at a disadvantage. I lose 10 bonus points before I even start by not keeping my original list or not using a Dwarf army. Add to that, it is not fully painted so I will lose a further 2 points per game until that is done (approx 50 Gor, 10 Harpies, 1 Razorgor and the 2 Shamans to go). So already i've potentially lost 16 points, the equivalent of a game win!

The main disadvantage however is the fact that i've never used Beastmen before which does give a small handicap before we even start. Sometimes my genius knows no limits! I do have 1 practice game lined up against a new club member on 4 Nov, so hopefully that will be enough to show me the mistakes i've made in my list selection when it is too late to do anything about it.

With that said, i've had to rely on internet trawling, forum posts, battle reports, combined with my own thoughts and what I actually own, to put together my army. My reasons for taking what I did are given after the list.


The Herd of Khazbar the Magnificent

Characters

Khazbar the Magnificent - Great Bray Shaman - General

(AHW + Jagged dagger + Talisman of Preservation + Level 4 - Lore of Shadow) - 294pts

Zhuroc the Shifty - Wargor - BSB

(HA + Sh + Beast Banner) - 191pts

Bloodhorn Thunderfeet - Doombull

(HA + Sh + Ramhorn Helm + Gnarled Hide + Dragonbane Gem + Sword of Battle + Arabyan Carpet) - 353pts

Wazzock the Lame - Bray Shaman

(AHW + Chalice of Dark Rain + Level 2 - Lore of Beasts) - 152pts

Core

Gor Herd

(38 Gor + FC + AHW) - 329pts

Gor Herd 

(19 Gor + FC + AHW) - 177pts

1 Tuskgor Chariot - 80pts

1 Tuskgor Chariot - 80pts

Special

Bestigor Herd 

(24 Bestigor + FC + HA + GW + Standard of Discipline) - 333pts

1 Razorgor Herd  - 55pts

1 Razorgor Herd - 55pts

5 Harpies - Scout - 70pts

5 Harpies - 55pts

Rare

1 Ghorgon - 275pts

Grand Total - 2499pts


List Build Reasoning

I was very close to using the 2nd list that I posted here: Sowing Misinformation – part 3. I really wanted to use minotaurs but in order to include the additional items such the chalice on the Shaman and additional chaff, I had to cut something from the list and they drew the short straw (the choice was between them, the Bestigor or the Ghorgon). A perhaps controversial choice but i'll cover reasons below.

So why take what I did?

Lords

The first decision was who to take as the general. Lvl 4 GBS, Beastlord or Doombull?

Each had pro's and cons. The Beastlord's advantage was due to the higher leadership. However I had already made the decision to take a lvl 4 shaman (this was a no brainer having been magic starved as a dwarf in the first group!). Realistically this meant only having enough points for one more lord and having made the decision to cut the Minotaur unit and due to my love of them (they have always been my favorite Chaos unit), it meant that I had to include the Doombull so they were represented.

With no unit to hide in I would however, have to rethink his load out and having seen the idea of a flying bull online I stole and adapted the idea, of course ignoring the conventional agreed load out (no charmed shield for me, instead a veritable mass of attacks with a 1+ save which would probably result in further attacks). He would be acting as a super chaff and would likely be able to stall entire units of low str models.

With the Doombull roaming free, this meant the GBS was the only choice as general. The logical place to put him would be in the Bestigor unit to take advantage of the standard of discipline so that other units would test on an LD of 9. A 4++ talisman would help to give him a bit of survivability, either in combat or from miscasts. The AHW and jagged dagger were to give him the chance to gain additional power dice for each kill he made (at a very low cost). I chose Shadow over Beasts on him as I like more of the spells and i'm a relative magic novice and it seemed a more straight forward lore. Beasts has some great spells but seems more reliant on being able to get those specific ones.

Heroes

This also meant that I could also take a lvl 2 Shaman on Beasts who would then benefit from the +1 to cast lore attribute, effectively making him a lvl 3 for free (at least for casting at the beastmen). Everyone loves the signature (Wyssans) and any other spell would be an added bonus. He was given the Chalice over a dispel scroll. I'm still not entirely sure this was wise but my army relies on getting into combat (and in one piece) and with taking a Ghorgon, I needed something else to help mitigate warmachines (especially cannons and stone throwers).

The final choice was a Wargor BSB. For a low leadership army, that relies on passing LD tests in order to reroll 'to hit' in each round of combat, the BSB is mandatory. Giving him the Beast Banner (+1 Strength to the holder and their unit) is one of the most obvious Beastmen BSB builds but is very effective when put in a Gor unit (The banner together with HA + sh + Gnarled hide combine to make the infamous 206 build. As i'm using the hide elsewhere, his defense will have to suffer somewhat).

Core

Honestly there was no real underlying strategy behind the core choices. I own 2 chariots, 60 Gor and 10 ungor raiders. That pretty much defined my choices. Of these, the 2 chariots were auto includes as I have always loved Chariots since picking up Grom and some other goblin wolf chariots back in 4th ed. Likewise a horde of Gor with AHW seems to be generally accepted as the best core unit and honestly who doesn't like a horde! 40 odd attacks with a slim chance of boosting them to 50 at str 3 (or 4 if the Beast Banner is in the unit) is nothing to be sniffed at. A smaller unit of Gor allows me to have the option of ambushing it (should I want) or using it as a Shaman bunker. It is generally just more versatile than the horde.

I did think about dropping a few Gor from the smaller unit in order to include some raiders but I would have wanted 2 units in order to make use of ambushing and the cutting of troops to allow this would have hamstrung the 2nd Gor unit too much.

Special

I read somewhere that Beastmen are kings of the chaff. I'm not sure of the truth of that but they do have some good options. 2 units of harpies give me some much needed speed. 10 initiative 5 attacks for each unit, should be enough to beat other chaff. Giving one of them scout, together with their high move gives a very good chance of getting them into any warmachines too. The chaff are rounded out with 2 individual Razorgors. They are affectionately called pork rockets by many Beastmen players. 55pts for 4 str 6 (on the charge) attacks is a bargain. These can be used on a flank, to assist existing combats or even as hard cover for other units. If nothing else perhaps I will have learnt how to use chaff by the end of the comp! (I will also give recognition to SELWG member Alex Mountain who is downright dirty highly effective in using his chaff and has definitely inspired me to step up my game with them. If I can get half as good with them as he is I will rate that an overwhelming success).

Bestigors are a solid dependable unit. Good leadership (for Beastmen), armour(!), great weapons, the ability to take a magic standard and being able to add in Beastmen characters meant that with the greater versatility, I had to favor them over the Minotaurs, especially with the high cost of each Minotaur.

Rare

And now we come to the elephant (Ghorgon?) in the room. It is almost universally agreed that the Ghorgon is overpriced by at least 50 points and with the ability of any strength attack to wound on a 6, poison avoiding toughness and no save, it just isn't durable enough to include in a list. So why the hell did I take one?

I'll be honest, I almost didn't. For the same price I could have almost 5 Minotaurs with additional hand weapons that would pump out 19 str 5 attacks (if the doombull was in the unit giving frenzy) and 2 str 5 impacts (on the charge) and 2 str 5 stomps (+ whatever the Doombull added). That is a lot of attacks and putting it down here now I am almost trying to work out what on earth I was thinking. The Minotaurs do have some issues though. They only have light armour (may as well not have any - so on a par with the Ghorgon there) and more importantly only toughness 4. That makes it relatively easy to cause wounds on them, especially with the type of matchups opponents would favour. The 295 cost for 5 Minotaurs also doesn't include a standard/musician, which, with a  LD of 7 they really need. They also need to be near the general/BSB to ensure they aren't frenzy baited (or break easily).

So we then come to the Ghorgon. I could talk about the advantages of it over the Minotaurs (and I will) but the long and short of it is I have a model I really love and wanted to use it. That's it.

Now having said that, it does have some advantages over the Minotaurs. First off it is LD 10 and Stubborn. That means it can operate independently on the flanks, something that very few other Beastmen units can. It is unlikely to fail a frenzy test and in combat it will hardly ever break. WS 4, Str + T + W's of 6 means most units will need a 4 to hit and 6 to wound. Even cannons have only a 1 in 6 chance of killing it in one go and with the Chalice in the list, they will need a 4+ to even fire on one turn which might give it a chance to get into combat. The other way of looking at it, is that it is a large monster (something i've also not used having been playing Dwarves, so another point in its favour) and such an imposing model, he will likely be a magnet for fire and anything aiming at him will not be aiming at other units that are potentially more integral to the army synergies (I even managed to write that with out cracking a laugh as most of the list was picked based on what I own or really wanted to use...). So for better or for worse, he has been included.

Very entertaining!

I'd suggest though NOT bunkering a wizard in your bestigors. It hurts losing just one of those guys to miscasts. That's what the Gors are for!

Also Harpies won't panic after a single casualty in the first shooting round, they'd have to lose 2 models.

Very interesting read. Will use this information for my list, thanks.

You join us once again to follow the amazing adventures of Captain Khazbar and the crew of the... wait no that's a different genre.


After spending a week at the inlaws, we had a two day break before they then arrived at ours for a week, together with one of their (and my wife's) Italian friends and her two children. Where am I going with this? Well my amazing wife realised I'd had a shit week at work and recognising that I'd had no space in the evenings to unwind, told me to go to the club. So I managed to get an unexpected game in on Friday. Happy days!


As an extra bonus, I finally managed to get a game in vs Luke C and his dark elves. I'd seen Luke play a number of times but for some reason we'd never managed to get a game in.


Lists


Herd of Khazbar the Magnificent


Bashor the Bloody - Beastlord (General), ogre blade, armour of destiny, shield


Khazbar the Magnificent - Great Bray Shaman, level 4 - Lore of Beasts, Talisman of Protection, Brass Cleaver, jagged dagger


Zurrock the Mighty - Wargor (bsb), HA, shield, Beast Banner


Wazzock the Lame - Bray Shaman, level 1 - Lore of Shadow, dispel scroll


Cattleclysm - Doombull, Arabyan carpet, gold sigil sword, dragonbane gem, ramhorn helm, gnarled hide, HA, shield


48 Gor, FC, AHW


1 Tusgor chariot


1 Tusgor chariot


5 Ungor raiders


5 Ungor raiders


37 Bestigor, FC, Standard of Discipline


1 Razorgor


1Razorgor


5 Harpies


Dark Elves


I didn't get a copy of Luke's list but it was something like:


General - Dreadlord, LIght Armour, Shield, scaly cloak, coldone, black dragon egg, ogre blade


Level 4 Sorceress - power scroll, dark steed, possibly other stuff - Lore of Life


Level 1 Sorceress - Dispel scroll, Lore of beasts.


Death Hag - bsb, cauldron of blood, obsidian blade, the +D3 attack upgrade


5 Dark riders - Standard, musician, xbows


5 Dark riders - standard, musician, xbows


5 Dark riders - Standard, musician, xbows


29 Witch Elves - FC


30 Executioners


5 Doomfire Warlocks


9 Coldone Knights








Scenario


After a fair bit of testing at the club I had made some further amendments to the Wicked Woods scenario we were going to use in the competition and we played that to try the changes out. There were two main changes.

1) The wood acts in the same way as a normal forest except: All models that march, charge, flee, overrun or pursues through, into or out of the Wicked Woods most take a Dangerous Terrain test, the test fails on the result of a 1 or 2. Models with the Strider special rule do not ignore Dangerous Terrain tests from the Wicked Woods. Any Wounds caused by the Wicked Woods Dangerous Terrain test count as magical. NOTE: You do not take the test for normal movement.

2) From Turn 2, if you control the wicked woods, you gain 1 scenario points per turn, awarded at the end of each players turn. (This means a player could get a maximum of 10 points in a game, 5 points for controlling it at the end of each of your turns (from turn 2-6) and 5 points for controlling it at the end of each of your opponents turns). The player that has the most scenario points at the end of the game wins. In the event of a tie, the player with the most victory points as per the BRB wins.


Terrain and Pre-match rolls


We rolled map pack 4 which meant a river, 2 normal hills, 2 scree slopes and a forest.

After placing the terrain (including the additional wood from the scenario, it looked like this.







It terms of spell selection:


Khazbar ended up with: Savage Beast, Curse, Wyssans and Amber Spear.


Wazzock took Miasma


The DE Supreme Sorceress got: Throne, Flesh, Earthblood and awakening.


The Beast Sorceress rolled Curse as well.



Deployment


Deployment is as per battleline so alternate. I won the roll and so Luke placed the first unit and finished first. Although Luke had a number of units of chaff, my list far outstripped his of throwaway units and so I was able to place my big units after he had laid the Witches, Executioners and Cold One Knights. This allowed me to put the Besitigor opposite the Cold Ones, a match up he would not like. The Gor Horde went front and centre to capture the woods and the Doombull and accompanying harpies were placed on the far side of the river to perform a flanking manoeuvre, as the river would not impact their movement as they could all fly.


Due the chatting and laughs, I was having with Luke, as he regaled me with comic tournament stories, I allowed myself to get distracted and I did make the one blunder that as a Beastmen player you should never do, that of not having most of the army deployed within the bsb and generals range. Thankfully I wasn't punished for that!


With a blatant disregard for their lives, the witch elves started on top of a scree slope ensuring a dangerous terrain test as soon as they moved  and after his 4 vanguards, it looked like this.

















Turn 1 - DE


Luke started off by giving me a punishing lesson in how to use Dark Riders. One unit advanced at the double and positioned themselves in front of the Bestigors but slightly set back in the flank of my Razorgor. This meant I couldn't charge them and so effectively took them out of the game for my first turn.

The second unit also moved up to block the left unit Ungor Raiders. This in turn would limit the movement of the Gor horde in the following turn. Their cavalier attitude towards my units was helped by the boosted flesh to stone that was cast on them.

He then proceeded to show why the dark elves prefer combat by failing to kill a single thing with 30 repeater crossbow shots. This was backed up by both Curse and dwellers failing to cast.

The rest of his forces just generally advanced, with the warlocks and accompanying supreme Sorceress re-positioning from his left flank towards the right and the witches moving slightly into the wicked woods, where they promptly took 4 casualties (on top of the 2 they had already taken from the scree slope).










Turn 1 - Beastmen


Taking a leaf out or Luke's book my right most raider unit moved up to block the Cold One Knights. The supporting chariot moved up to counter should the raiders be killed.

The central chariot and Razorgor also moved to allow counter charges should the Bestigor be blocked again.

The Ungor raiders charged the T7 Dark riders in front of them, were quickly bested and legged it to safety through the nearby horde. Edit: not quite sure what I was thinking. Either that they might pin the riders in place or that they would at least be out of the way.

Across the river the Doombull and Harpies advanced at speed to threaten the flank of the witches.

On my first cast of magic in the game, a 3 dice roll of curse on the witches, resulted in  a miscast at irresistible force, followed by a further 2 sixes (power drain), followed by a final six. Apart from a an improbable set of rolls, the net result meant my level 4 Shaman was now a level 1 with just Wyssans remaining! On the positive side, at least Luke had been unable to dispel it and so his witches were effectively pinned for the next turn.





Turn 2 - DE


Seeing the danger posed by the flying circus, the Dark riders withdrew in order to cover the flank of the witchesand were again buffed with flesh to stone to give them a fighting chance should the raging Minotaur decide to target them. (Edit - yes I did originally write ' lock horns' but took a step back, slapped myself and changed it). The warlocks moved more to the centre to ensure they were also out of the charge arc.

Meanwhile the central unit of riders advanced to impede the movement of the Gor horde (that had been hexed with Soulbight) and the executioners followed to provide support. The final unit of riders, not liking the attention they were receiving, skipped through the Beastmen lines so they were now positioned behind the Gor unit.

The woods continued to feed on the Witches and they lost another couple of the unit to its feeding frenzy.

The riders shooting improved dramatically but was still rather pathetic with a single Gor and harpy dying to the bolts.


















Turn 2 - Beastmen


Seeing their opportunity to get rid of some of the pesky riders, the central chariot smashed into the unit in front of them. 3 of them were crushed beneath the Chariot and the others turned tail and fled with another losing his life in the wicked woods.

The doombull charged into the Dark riders and despite their boosted toughness promptly slaughtered one. Their faces took on a worried look as their attacks rebounded back onto them. The worry grew as the bull grew in stature, as it ripped their kinsman apart and fed on his blood.

On the other side of the map the stalemate continued with the Razorgor joining the chariot read to counter charge the Cold Ones. The Bestigor moved up ready to support the centre should it be required.

Magic involved miasma cast on the riders behind the Beastmen lines, reducing their movement by 3.












Turn 3 - DE


With a shout to Khaine the executioners charged the closest chariot, three of their number including the champion falling to the dangerous terrain. They quickly demolished the chariot and then piled into the side of the Gor horde.

The remaining dark rider rallied and moved to block the Gor unit.

With the expiration of their toughness buff, the doombull/riders combat was only going to go one way as in a frenzy of blows, his opponents exploded leaving a mist of blood and pile of gore.

Magic continued the way of the previous turns with doombolt failing to wound the Razorgor and Dwellers failing to cast.

The witches, finally free of the curse, moved into the woods and promptly lost another two of their number.















Turn 3 - Beastmen


The Bestigors charged into the rear of the executioners only losing 5 or so of their number to the dangerous terrain. Another 4 were cut down by the druchii as were 13 of the Gor before they struck back killing 15 of the unit. The executioners broke and were run down by the Bestigor.

The Doombull turned ready to charge the rear of the Witches.

In a spectacular display of one up man ship, the ungor raiders showed the dark riders how it was done and shot down one of the cold one knights and in that one move made back their points.









Turn 4 - DE


With a 2 point lead at this point, Luke proved his pointy eared pedigree and in an underhanded tactic, moved all his remaining Dark riders and his Warlocks into conga formation to surround the witches and prevent any units making it into combat with them.

With the evening drawing to a close, I called the game at that point.











Result


After turn 3 it was 2-0 to Luke but if we had completed turn 4 it would have likely been 4-0.


Conclusion


I really enjoyed the game with Luke and was glad to finally play him. He had me in stitches many times, didn't take anything too seriously and was just generally good fun to play against. All qualities I like in an opponent.


The updated scenario worked really well and that is definitely the rule set we'll take forward into the competition.


Luke's use of fast cav was very good and just damn right frustrating and bloody annoying. It was definitely a learning experience (one i'll not necessarily rush to repeat) but it did open my eyes to their use.


I did make a number of errors in the game and there are a number of things to learn from it. My deployment was again somewhat lacking. I blocked a number of my own units and allowed his riders to prevent my units moving in the first turn.


In match ups with fast cav, I need to ensure that some of my chaff hangs back to allow me to charge them if they block my frontline units. Possibly this could be done by the Doombull as not only would he mince them thus gaining extra attacks but with the lack of shooting in my list he is one of the few reliable counters to them.


I should have placed the razorgor in the woods to bait the witch elves, knowing a charge would have caused dangerous terrain checks.


Honestly, Khazbar should be ashamed at the amount of miscasts he throws out. Admittedly at least this time he spiced it up and didn't take out half his unit. I should have expected that though as he was placed in that unit and the size bumped up just to cover that eventuality, so of course he would choose to go the other way and just nerf himself!


I also need to brush up on rules as the single dark rider should only have been able to rally on snake eyes as the unit was under 25% and may not have been there full stop as the standard should have been removed when they initially fled combat. This is one issue with not knowing the opponents list and the unit not having a standard represented in them.

It's funny but I always thought that players starting with chariots sideways to get the extra inch or so of movement was a bit gamey but after this battle I realised that if I had done it, it would have served a duel purpose and allowed me to actually discourage the blocking of the Bestigor. Something for me to think about if I'm screening the big blocks with raiders.

Why thank you kind sir.
The issue is my win/lose ratio. A couple of my regulars always state if I spend more time thinking through moves rather than scribbling notes I'd probably do much better 😊. It's actually quite addictive and writing it up really allows you to work out where you screw up. The issue is I often chop and change armies and normally average out to a game or two a month now and so forget all the lessons previously learnt...
I've just realised that I'm now going to have to start a log of the mistakes lessons learnt for each army so I don't constantly repeat them.

Sounds like fun!