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Post by strutsagget on Sept 9, 2017 12:31:50 GMT
What happens if you rolled a 5 on monster reaction table(Raaargh!) for the coming movements in the following turns?
It's got Frenzy and Hatred. Always charge closets enemy.
Does that mean it will always charge 3D6 and pivot to a closet enemy every turn and might as well skip LD tests?
Looks pretty clear when I read the rules now but ask anyway. Something about movement made us uncertain last night.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 9, 2017 13:26:07 GMT
It is not "Raaaargh," but "Blood." The Hellcannon does not have Frenzy, nor Hatred. It does, however, have the Caged Fury special rule.
"Blood" just says to "Move the Hellcannon 3D6" forwards, as if it were subject to the Random Movement special rule and it was the Compulsery Moves sub-phase." Once this has been resolved, the Hellcannon returns to normal, including being subject to the Caged Fury special rule.
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Post by strutsagget on Sept 9, 2017 13:37:11 GMT
It is not "Raaaargh," but "Blood." The Hellcannon does not have Frenzy, nor Hatred. It does, however, have the Caged Fury special rule. "Blood" just says to "Move the Hellcannon 3D6" forwards, as if it were subject to the Random Movement special rule and it was the Compulsery Moves sub-phase." Once this has been resolved, the Hellcannon returns to normal, including being subject to the Caged Fury special rule So let me see if I wrote it bad. I probably did it wrong.... I am In the shooting and get a misfire. I roll for misfire on Hellcanons page and roll a 2 Schlurp. Eating all its handlers. As in monsters with handlers rules, I take a monster reaction test when there is no handlers left and hit a 5 Raaaaargh. |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 9, 2017 13:57:24 GMT
Yes, I misread your post, confusing the Doomfire misfire table with the Monster reaction Table. On the latter, 5-6 is indeed "Raaargh," and the Hellcannon would be subject to Frenzy and Hatred. Quandoque bonus dormitat Fidelis...
Note that the Hellcannon remains subject to the Caged Fury rule. As the Caged Fury test is taken at the start of the turn, it comes first; if this does not bring the Hellcannon into close combat, then you still may have to take the Frenzy test in the Charge sub-phase, if the Hellcannon could declare a charge. However, to determine whether an enemy unit is within the maximal charge range for Frenzy, you need to use the normal Move value (3) of the Hellcannon (so, the enemy must be within 3+ 2D6 = 15").
To clarify Frenzy: You must declare a charge against the nearest viable enemy, but only after you have failed a Ld test. If the test is passed, or (self-evidently) if you cannot declare a charge that is possible, then you do not need to declare a charge at all.
BRB p. 70: "If, during the Charge sub-phase, a unit that includes one or more Frenzied models could declare a charge, then it must do so unless a Leadership test is passed. If the Leadership test is failed, the Frenzied unit must declare a charge against the nearest viable enemy" (BRB p. 70).
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 9, 2017 17:01:52 GMT
Hmm, heaving read the rules for the Hellcannon and the Monster Reaction table again, the situation turns out to be more complicated, and I need to modify my position.
1. In the table (BRB p. 106), under Raaargh, it states:
"The monster fights on as normal, but is subject to Frenzy and Hatred of all enemies for the rest of the game (it can never lose its Frenzy, even if defeated in combat) and will always charge the closest eligible enemy target."
The "will always charge" is additional to, not part of the Frenzy special rule. Therefore, it is rather pointless to take the Ld test for Frenzy, as you will charge in any case (provided there is an eligible target).
2. At the start of the turn (before charges), the Hellcannon still needs to take the Caged Fury test.
- If the Caged Fury test is passed, then, in the Charge phase, any charge resulting from Raaargh will use the normal Move value (3).
- However, under the Caged Fury rule, it is specified that in case of a failed test the Hellcannon "is subject to the Random Movement (3D6) special rule, until the beginning of the next turn, except that it can move only forwards."
- Thus, if the Caged Fury test is failed, any movement until the next turn will use the 3D6 Random Movement. BRB p. 74 specifies that "Models with Random Movement cannot declare charges, and are always moved in the Compulsory Moves sub-phase. (...) If the move is found to take the unit into contact with an enemy, then it counts as charging, and this is resolved using the normal rules for charges and using the distance rolled as its charge range."
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Post by strutsagget on Sept 9, 2017 17:13:34 GMT
And if the handlers are gone It will take LD against its own low LD (4) value and most likley fail (unless general is near) so most likley it will do 3d6 random straight forward to closets enemy with frenzy and hatred every turn.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 9, 2017 20:28:54 GMT
Well, we are a bit in muddy waters. Strictly speaking, "charge" refers to going through the charge sub-phase, which starts with declaring a charge - something which cannot be done with Random Movement. Only if the Random Mover actually comes into contact with an enemy, it counts as a charge. One might be faced with the contradictory situation that, if the Random Movement is not enough to contact the enemy, there is no charge (not even a failed charge) and, thus, the Hellcannon did not have to move in the first place. It seems that this is another example where the implications of a special rule like Random Movement on other rules were not thought through. That said, the Caged Fury special rule seems to be the Random Movement equivalent for the Frenzy special rule, and could act as a precedent.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 9, 2017 22:02:40 GMT
Since we are on the subject anyway, here are some clarifications on the Random Movement special rule.
The sequence (BRB p. 74) is:
1. Pivot the centre of the Random Mover to face the direction in which you wish it to travel.
2. Roll the dice shown in the model's profile.
3. Measure the distance in a straight line to see whether you come into contact with an enemy. It is important to note that this happens, before the model is actually moved, as it will determine whether the 1" rule applies or not.
3.a If the move is found to take the unit into contact with an enemy this counts as charging, and this is resolved using the normal rules for charges and using the distance rolled as its charge range, i.e. move the charging unit in a straight line with one free wheel of 90° to get into contact with the enemy, and then either you or the enemy closes the door. During this charge, you can also move to within 1" of other units, or impassable terrain.
3.b If no charge is made, move the model directly forwards a number of inches equal to the total rolled by the dice. If the random move brings the unit to within 1" of a friendly unit or impassable terrain, it stops immediately and cannot move further during that Movement phase.
Remember that charge reactions cannot be declared against enemies with the Random Movement special rule.
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