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Post by strutsagget on Apr 30, 2018 17:28:55 GMT
Lets say we have a unit of two trolls joined by a character goblin on wolf. It has charged and won combat in building.  As the unit has a cavalry model, I guess it cant stay in the building and end up 1” away after combat? Can it combat win reform after bumping 1” or does it have to wait 1 turn? As the center is so close to the building can it reform any differed then 180deg, face backward? Is this legal moving center?  This? Conga style with char on the side.  This? 180 deg switch side on char.  |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Apr 30, 2018 22:20:09 GMT
Yes, since the combined unit contains a cavalry model, it cannot garrison the building, as the cavalry model cannot leave the unit this turn anymore.
It cannot combat reform either, because it is no longer in CC. And yes, a normal reform in this situation would only allow a 180 degree turn.
Of course, the character could leave the unit the following turn, and the Trolls could then garrison the building.
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Post by strutsagget on May 1, 2018 7:10:43 GMT
But reform into conga with char on the side and 180deg both on next turn is legal but not the one that breaks center?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on May 1, 2018 9:19:05 GMT
Well, there is no conga: for this the models need to be behind one other, but that probably would move the centre. The first and last picture are in accordance with the rules; the second is not.
[Strictly speaking, the first one shifts its centre a bit; but I myself would allow some leeway here, because, as I have pointed out many times before, the 1" rule is purely for clarity.]
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Post by strutsagget on May 1, 2018 16:05:05 GMT
Sorry for bad explanation.
The first one is moving the center. By flipping 90deg.
The second is a conga line of two trolls then putting off size base to the side after reform. It does not change center.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on May 1, 2018 16:18:27 GMT
Well, you have to keep "the centre point of the unit the same." In the second picture, the centre point has shifted. As I have tried to point out in my previous post, the centre point of the first has also shifted a bit, but the difference between the two is that it has shifted, not because of the reform per se, but because of the 1" rule. You could make that reform legally, if the building was somewhat further away. However, in the second case, the centre will always have shifted by making the reform itself, whatever the position of the building.
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Post by strutsagget on May 1, 2018 16:29:18 GMT
Well, you have to keep "the centre point of the unit the same." In the second picture, the centre point has shifted. As I have tried to point out in my previous post, the centre point of the first has also shifted a bit, but the difference between the two is that it has shifted, not because of the reform per se, but because of the 1" rule. You could make that reform legally, if the building was somewhat further away. However, in the second case, the centre will always have shifted by making the reform itself, whatever the position of the building. Sorry, don't really follow. In what way is changing a number of rows/columns impossible? It doesn't change the center. In this case, changing from a 1x2 with off base on the side to a 2x1 with off base on side. |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on May 1, 2018 16:43:29 GMT
The centre point itself cannot move. It is not enough that the centre of the unit is the same relative to the models - it must remain in the same physical location.
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Post by strutsagget on May 1, 2018 16:46:32 GMT
The center point is the same though.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on May 1, 2018 16:54:09 GMT
Does not look like it on the picture. There is, of course, an easy method: put a needle or somesuch on the centrepoint, change the models, keeping the needle in place, and then check whether the needle is still in the centre point of the reformed unit.
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Post by strutsagget on May 1, 2018 17:08:35 GMT
Well, there might be a small variation in my examples as it was more to visualize different reforms so it might have moved a mm or two.
In that case, flipping a 2x1 with char on the side to a 1x2 with char totally different side. Keeping the center as you would in a reform as the BRB picture explains it.
If you include the off size char when calculating center (seems impossible without measurement tools) then the center will move as the tower is in the way as same as example 1.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on May 1, 2018 22:22:09 GMT
The BRB example has same size models. Shifeting different size models will obviously affect the centre point in a different way. But if you say that the centre point is still in the original place, then that would be a legal move.
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