Rules question - Counter Charge and flank charge
Jun 30, 2018 14:31:16 GMT
knoffles, strutsagget, and 1 more like this
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jun 30, 2018 14:31:16 GMT
As suggested by mottdon in his Empire unit breakdown thread.
I think this is more of another ghost of editions past. The 6 & 7 Empire AB specified: "Note that if the Detachment can draw a line of sight to an exposed flank of the enemy, and has enough Movement to reach it, it can charge the enemy in the flank even if it should have charged to the front, according to the normal rules for charging."
The 8th edition does not have this exemption, therefore normal rules apply. So, what are the normal rules?
Given this, a Counter Charge does not automatically result in a flank charge.
Of course, contrary to the other charge reactions, a Counter Charge reaction cannot be resolved immediately, since the charger has not moved yet. That is why the AB specifies:
Note also that the 6/7 Empire ABs also specified that Detachments
- do not cause Panic in other Empire units
- do not suffer the -1 modifier for S&S, when conducting Support Fire
- could conduct a Supporting Charge.
None of which exists in the 8th.
I'll add those when I get into adding more stuff too, though, I think the Counter Charge issue may be more of a RAW vs RAI topic, better suited for it's own thread. This needs to be more of a quick reference and good strategies thread.
I think this is more of another ghost of editions past. The 6 & 7 Empire AB specified: "Note that if the Detachment can draw a line of sight to an exposed flank of the enemy, and has enough Movement to reach it, it can charge the enemy in the flank even if it should have charged to the front, according to the normal rules for charging."
The 8th edition does not have this exemption, therefore normal rules apply. So, what are the normal rules?
- Empire AB. p. 30: If an enemy unit declares a charge against a Regimental Unit, and the Regimental Unit does not flee as a charge reaction, then each of its unengaged Detachments within 3" can make either a Support Fire or a Counter Charge action (see below). These actions are declared immediately after their Regimental Unit’s charge reaction. lf the Regimental Unit does not get a charge reaction for any reason then the Detachment cannot make a Support Fire or a Counter Charge action. [My Italics]
- BRB p. 16: In this sub-phase, you'll choose one of your units and declare the charge you want it to make. Your opponent will then have the chance to have his unit hold its ground or react to the charge, either by standing and shooting or fleeing.
Once the charge reaction has been resolved, you can nominate another of your units to declare a charge, and so on, until all of your charges have been declared and reacted to — then you get to make your charge rolls and resolve the charges.
Now, it is in this phase that front/flank/rear charges are determined:
- BRB p 21:
A charging unit's position when the charge is declared determines whether it charges into the front, flank or rear of the enemy unit. If the charging unit is in the target's frontal zone when the charge is declared then it charges into the front.
Whether a charger is in the front, flank or rear of its intended target is determined before charges are declared, so make sure you check before charge reactions are declared.
Given this, a Counter Charge does not automatically result in a flank charge.
Of course, contrary to the other charge reactions, a Counter Charge reaction cannot be resolved immediately, since the charger has not moved yet. That is why the AB specifies:
- Empire AB p. 30: If a Counter Charge action is declared, the Detachment makes an out of sequence move that is resolved as if it had just declared a charge against the charging unit. This move is made after your opponent has moved all of his charging units, as long as one or more enemy units has successfully completed a charge against the detachment’s Regimental Unit. The enemy does not get to make any charge reactions against a Counter Charge, but otherwise all the normal charging rules and bonuses apply. [Italics mine]
Note also that the 6/7 Empire ABs also specified that Detachments
- do not cause Panic in other Empire units
- do not suffer the -1 modifier for S&S, when conducting Support Fire
- could conduct a Supporting Charge.
None of which exists in the 8th.