|
Post by strutsagget on Jul 10, 2018 21:56:29 GMT
So Cracks call doesn't have a target and don't have a spell type. It protrudes a line 4d6 in front of the caster, all models take an I test or die basically. BRB, Pg.31, Choosing a Target, par.1, "Targeting restrictions vary from spell to spell. However, unless stated otherwise the following rules apply: The target must lie within the Wizard's forward arc. The Wizard does not need line of sight to his target. The target must lie within the spell's range. Wizards cannot target spells at units engaged in close combat." Edit: forgot to write the questions Can it be used out of combat? Can it be used against a unit in combat?
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Jul 10, 2018 22:08:33 GMT
So what's your question?
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jul 10, 2018 22:24:04 GMT
I was just about to say the same thing.
|
|
|
Post by strutsagget on Jul 11, 2018 5:30:55 GMT
Lol So the questions Can it be used out of combat? Can it be used against a unit in combat?
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jul 11, 2018 8:34:36 GMT
To answer your first question: as there is neither a general restriction in the BRB, nor a specific restriction in the spell's description, you can cast Cracks Call out of CC.
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jul 11, 2018 9:30:15 GMT
To answer your second question:
Of course, the Skaven AB is still 7th edition, in which “Wizards cannot cast spells at units engaged in close combat, unless the spell only affects the caster himself or the spell's description specifies otherwise," which Cracks Call does not. But that was 7th edition.
As you say, when casting Crack Call you do not have to declare a target of the spell. I do not think that is really an issue, because the wording on BRB p. 31 is “Wizards cannot target spells at units engaged in close combat.” “Target” is used here in the sense of “aim, direct” and, although Cracks Call has no declared target, the spell is targeted at something.
The real problem seems to be in the next paragraph:
“Some spells have a type that enforces additional casting restrictions, or waives others. There are five distinct types of spell: augment, direct damage, hex, magic missile and magical vortex. Some unique spells, or spells that are printed in older Warhammer Armies books, do not have a type — their text will contain any casting restrictions that apply.”
While Cracks Call is basically a direct damage spell using a template, GW has never come around to identify the types of Skaven spells. Therefore, the last sentence is applicable. How you read it is the crux of the matter. One can read it strictly within the context of the paragraph (i.e. pertaining to additional restrictions according to spell type), or more general, because it uses the phrase “any casting restrictions.” In the first case, you cannot cast the spell into CC, in the second you can.
On a side note: in either case, as it is a template spell, characters and champions do benefit from the "Look Out, Sir!" special rule.
|
|
|
Post by strutsagget on Jul 11, 2018 11:42:26 GMT
Yea I was afraid of that.
How do people play it?
My spontaneous opinion is if the rules prohibited it in first place when written (7ed) and it becomes pretty overpowerd at cast at 11+. It might be better with interpreted in the restricted way.
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jul 11, 2018 12:07:25 GMT
Being over- or underpowered is, of course, no valid argument in a rules' discussion (see Banner of the World Dragon). That said, the dash indicates that the second clause explains the first, thus linking the lack of a spell type directly with the need to specify any restrictions, which would otherwise have been covered by spell type rules. This rather favours the interpretation that the general rules on restrictions remain applicable (that is why they are the general rules).
|
|
|
Post by strutsagget on Jul 11, 2018 12:33:03 GMT
I do agree, and that is why I wrote my opinion and not interpretation.
But as there is no clear way how to read it then it comes down to opinion on what's make a fun game.
|
|
|
Post by Horace on Jul 11, 2018 13:02:01 GMT
I think for me, since it says and Crack's Call does not specify it can be cast into combat, I would play it can not be cast into combat. I would also say if it affects any unit which is in combat, it can not be cast out of combat either. As for this section, I have added bold for what I see as the relevant part. These would be additional restrictions or specific waivers to cast into combat. Crack's Call contains no waiver hence can not be cast into combat. “Some spells have a type that enforces additional casting restrictions, or waives others. There are five distinct types of spell: augment, direct damage, hex, magic missile and magical vortex. Some unique spells, or spells that are printed in older Warhammer Armies books, do not have a type — their text will contain any casting restrictions that apply.”
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jul 11, 2018 13:26:01 GMT
Unfortunately, as we have seen in a recent threat, the fact that something is not specified otherwise, does not prevent people from arguing otherwise. I would also say if it effects any unit which is in combat, it can not be cast out of combat either. Correct. To my unending shame, I must admit that my nephew is a Skaven player. However, he has at least the one redeeming feature that he follows my lead regarding rules. So, he plays that it cannot be cast in CC. On a side note: there is no general restriction on casting even negative spells on your own units, and since Crack Call does not specify otherwise, there is no problem in hitting your own units, which is in line with Skaven morale.
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Jul 11, 2018 14:38:46 GMT
I have never had the opportunity to encounter this situation, but if I were, I think I'd want to play it as you can't cast Cracks Call out of CC or into CC - UNLESS - it is a CC that involves Slaves. I'd treat that CC as you would with shooting. (I may be wrong with that, but it just seems to fit the fluff for me and sounds unexpected and fun! )
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jul 11, 2018 15:50:48 GMT
Regarding casting out of CC, you would be more restrictive than necessary. The only spells that can never be cast out of CC are magic missiles:
BRB p. 31: Magic missiles cannot be cast at all if the Wizard (or his unit) is engaged in close combat.
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Jul 11, 2018 15:56:50 GMT
Well, I was only referring to Cracks Call. Other than Magic Missiles, I'm fine with.
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jul 11, 2018 16:44:26 GMT
Ah, a conscious self-restriction. Good man - bad Skaven.
|
|