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Post by mottdon on Aug 16, 2018 14:31:23 GMT
So, can a unit (A) declare a charge if it has another unit (B) is blocking it's path to it's intended charge target if the blocking unit (B) declares a charge as well? This may need a bit of clarification.
Say, Unit A is in the flank of a Target. But there is also a Unit B in the Target's front, but Unit B's flank is directly in front of Unit A, effectively blocking Unit A if it doesn't move. The player declares a charge with both Unit A and Unit B against the target, bringing Unit B in the front, and Unit A in it's flank. Is this legal? I've always played that if you can't make the charge at the beginning of the movement phase, then you can't do it.
I watched the latest Mountain Miniatures Gaming video on YouTube of Vampire Counts vs High Elves. At 14:50, he does this above. I commented on it in the video, but he proclaims that it's legal. I know that on page 16 of the BRB, it says that as long as one member of the Unit A can see the target, a charge can be declared, but I just don't see how in this circumstance. The horde of Crypt Horrors is simply too big and stick out too far for the Crypt Ghouls to clear them, so it looks like a obstruction to me. I'm looking for clarification on this.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 16, 2018 15:27:23 GMT
Yes, perfectly legitimate.
BRB p. 16: "Note that if such obstruction is another unit, and there is a chance that the intervening unit will move out of the chargers' way before the charge is completed, the charge is 'possible', and therefore can be declared (remember that you still need to see the target to declare the charge though!)."
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Post by sedge on Aug 16, 2018 19:01:01 GMT
Am I right in thinking that in Mottdon's example, if Unit A were frenzied, they'd have to take a Leadership test to see whether they have to declare a charge?
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Post by gjnoronh on Aug 16, 2018 19:16:19 GMT
IMO no. As when determining if they _have_ to declare the charge they can't legally complete it. But it's a grey area again IMO>
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Post by vulcan on Aug 16, 2018 22:30:14 GMT
The way I've always understood it, the blocking unit has to declare a charge before the blocked unit can legally declare one.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 16, 2018 22:31:58 GMT
Basically, unit A is only able to declare a possible charge, if unit B also declares a charge. Therefore, unit A with Frenzy will have to take the test, if unit B declares a charge; if unit B does not, then A does not have to take the test. vulcan: As such, the blocking unit B does not need to declare its charge first. However, if unit A does declare a charge first, then unit B must declare a charge as well.
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Post by mottdon on Aug 17, 2018 0:08:25 GMT
So, if Unit B (horde formation), charges a Target (5-wide) and the Unit A cant' clear the end of Unit B in a straight shot, Unit B would be considered an obstruction, right? The charge couldn't be completed.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 17, 2018 8:35:57 GMT
There only has to be a chance that the intervening unit will have moved. If unit B declares a charge that, if successful, would move it out of the way of unit A when the charges are actually resolved and the units moved, then unit A can declare a legal charge. Of course, if unit B cannot succesfully complete its charge, chances are that unit A will also fail its charge, but that has no bearing on the legality of the charge declaration itself.
To add: while normally the player can use any order to resolve the charges, he must resolve the charges of any such obstructing units first.
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Post by strutsagget on Aug 17, 2018 17:19:56 GMT
I just want to say a big thank you for all the help, you and others here, for taking the time to read and answers rule questions. Everyone's help is fantastic! 🙏
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 19, 2018 18:46:11 GMT
We serve to please and please to serve. FAQ: Fidelis Answers Questions.
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