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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 22, 2018 4:58:35 GMT
vulcan & midnightfox0083 : That Plague of Rust and Wither hves a permanent effect is not in dispute. However, in the case of Plague of Rust and similar spells, it is a permanent effect on the models targeted when the spell was cast - it does not apply to new models, as the spell is not active anymore (unless you cast it again). The Wither FAQ changes that: new models that have not been targeted when the spell was cast are affected. You cannot have it both ways: either the spell is not active anymore, in which case Drain Magic does not work; or it is still active, in which case Drain magic will work.
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Post by strutsagget on Sept 22, 2018 7:49:55 GMT
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Post by midnightfox0083 on Sept 22, 2018 9:03:43 GMT
There is a lot I don't agree with in the FAQ and the Wither "clarification" is one of them. There's no reason that a new model coming in after the spell has gone off should be affected by previous castings. The FAQ is one of those "let's reduce the amounts of book keeping" moments that ignores the fact that you need to do just as much book keeping if any character leaves the unit and as such entirely misses its own point.
The Skaven FAQ is full of these sort of things, like the removal of randomizing hits for shooting into combat which just made it a stupid powerful rule in a different way than it is as written.
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Post by strutsagget on Sept 22, 2018 9:09:12 GMT
I am trying to convince my group to ignore the faq and just use it as plague of rust
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Post by vulcan on Sept 22, 2018 23:36:25 GMT
vulcan & midnightfox0083 : That Plague of Rust and Wither hves a permanent effect is not in dispute. However, in the case of Plague of Rust and similar spells, it is a permanent effect on the models targeted when the spell was cast - it does not apply to new models, as the spell is not active anymore (unless you cast it again). The Wither FAQ changes that: new models that have not been targeted when the spell was cast are affected. You cannot have it both ways: either the spell is not active anymore, in which case Drain Magic does not work; or it is still active, in which case Drain magic will work. I agree with you, the Wither FAQ is garbage. I look at Plague of Rust and Wither as 'direct damage' spells that target something other than a model's wounds. It goes off, has it's effect, and ends. New models joining the unit should not be affected. As I said, simple logic... something GW had problems with.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 23, 2018 7:46:18 GMT
As far as I am aware like Plague of Rust. As it happens, I stiil have the last 7th edition Skaven Errata & FAQ, and it does NOT contain the Wither FAQ in question. Note that, in any xase, if a character had joined the unit before the spell was cast, he would obviously keep the reduced T value, when he leaves it again.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 23, 2018 12:52:36 GMT
To elaborate a bit on the "can of worms" - it is not the Wither spell FAQ that opens it, but the first reading of the Drain Magic spell.
As I pointed out before, most people tended to read: "the effects of all other spells on the target unit immediately come to an end - i.e. the effects on the target unit of all other spells immediately come to an end. In this interpretation, the effects of both PoR and Wither (with or without FAQ) would come to an end.
However, that is not the end of that interpretation. For instance, reducing the Wounds of a model is just as much an "effect on the target of all other spells." Brought to its logical conclusion, this interpretation means that a character that has lost a Wound by e.g. a Fireball would regain that Wound, or a unit that has lost x number of models because of Dwellers Below would see them resurrected. You would need to keep an accurate account of all spell effects and work your way back to determine the results of Drain Magic.
Since this interpretation of Drain Magic reduces itself ad absurdum, the correct reading must be: "the effects of all other spells on the target." So, Drain magic will end the effects of those spells that are currently active on the target; effects of spells that are not active on the target will not come to an end.
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