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Post by livewaaaaagh on Jan 5, 2019 14:27:31 GMT
Wood Elves have the Waystalker which among its rules has the Hawk eyed Archer rule, which states the following (paraphrasing):
A Waystalker can choose to make a Fast Shot or an Aimed Shot. A Fast Shot has the Multiple Shot (2) special rule while an Aimed Shot results in Armor saves not able to be taken.
The Waystalker can also carry up to 25 points in magic items.
The Wood Elf armory contains the Bow of Loren. Rules essentially are "Shots taken by the Bow of Loren have the Multiple Shot (A+1) rule.
So here's the question:
If you equip a Waystalker with the Bow of Loren and they opt for a "Fast Shot" this turn, do they fire 2 or 3 shots? And if they shoot an Aimed Shot, do they fire 2 shots?
I'm thinking whether it's worth it to equip the Waystalker with a Bow of Loren, as the Bow cannot fire enchanted arrows. So you're still hitting at S4 shots, but snipe. However, you could Snipe a 2-wound Hero too with it since a Waystalker has the special rule "Snipe", so it could be a way of killing a BSB.
Thoughts?
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Post by midnightfox0083 on Jan 5, 2019 14:46:33 GMT
A Waystalker with Bow of Loren would shoot two shots for Fast Shot. Both the Bow and Fast Shot have Multiple Shot (2) on a Way Stalker, Fast Shot doesn't increase the Waystalkers Attacks characteristic and thus has no effect on the Bow.
You would also fire 2 shots with Aimed Shot thanks to the Bow's Multiple Shot rule. Aimed Shot doesn't preclude the ability for multiple attacks.
Essentially, the Bow gives you a second Armor ignoring shot while making Fast Shot redundant.
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Post by livewaaaaagh on Jan 5, 2019 15:05:11 GMT
Thanks for the quick response midnight!
And under both circumstances, you'd do it at -1 modifier for multiple shots? BS7 anyway, but still.... Is a 2nd "Snipe, no armour saves allowed at S4" worth 20 points? Decisions... |
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Post by strutsagget on Jan 5, 2019 15:48:37 GMT
Sniping a hero per turn or engineer is pretty awesome  least in theory. Too bad he doesn't have the arrow of kurnos special rule. Then he could take out a general turn one  |
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Post by strutsagget on Jan 5, 2019 15:54:49 GMT
But another question is if sniper rule stacks with either aimed shot or bow of Loren.
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Post by livewaaaaagh on Jan 5, 2019 16:52:03 GMT
aimed shot is a unit ability as per army book so I don’t see why not. Now of Loren doesn’t say anything about it not stacking so I do t see why it wouldn’t!
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Post by strutsagget on Jan 5, 2019 16:55:08 GMT
But sniper rule says instead of its normal attack you may do A single special shot.  |
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Post by livewaaaaagh on Jan 5, 2019 17:42:59 GMT
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Post by DiscoQing on Jan 5, 2019 17:57:52 GMT
I can't see where it says "single shot" in the sniper rule? Lol.
Imo, he snipes with as many shots as he can make.
Same as Pistol wielding Maneaters or Fiery Ring wearing Witch Hunter.
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Post by midnightfox0083 on Jan 5, 2019 18:00:29 GMT
The debate comes in because the rule states that instead of shooting normally you fire "a Sniper shot" in the singular.
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Post by DiscoQing on Jan 5, 2019 18:04:53 GMT
But it doesn't say you sacrifice the other shots...
Like the HKB for Vampires, or a Tree Whack etc...
Most things have 1 shot tis all, so that's how it's written.
You get as many shots as have, at -1.
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Post by strutsagget on Jan 5, 2019 18:43:51 GMT
Well it do say instead of your normal attack. But everywhere I can find they allow it to be used on both I just would like to know why with reference to the rules. So I think the answer is in the hawk-eyed archer rules. It has no limitations but happens no matter if you do the normal or a sniper. So sniping without armor save I can understand.  I wonder if it's the same with bow of Loren.  |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jan 5, 2019 22:24:39 GMT
An FAQ seems warranted in this case, but will not be forthcoming; so, we have to try to make the best of the rules as they are.
As midnightfox said, the Multiple Shots special rule does not stack, but the "aimed shot" of the Hawk-eyed Archer would stack with Multiple Shots of the Bow of Loren.
The question regarding Sniper is more complicated: as was observed, it boils down to what is considered "shooting normally".
BRB p. 77: "A model with the Sniper special rule can make a special Sniper shot instead of shooting normally."
Shooting normally is best understood as following the normal rules of shooting - which certainly does not include Multiple Shots. Indeed, the MS rule itself specifies that you still can always opt to fire only once with no extra penalties- as per the normal rules of shooting.
So, you can choose one of these (mutually exclusive) options:
1. fire normally
2. use the MS special rule
3. use the Sniper special rule.
However, the "aimed shot" (despite its name) is not a rule pertaining to normal shooting, but to using armour saves. That is why I would argue that the "aimed shot" of the Hawk-eyed Archer special rule will stack with the Sniper special rule.
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Post by DiscoQing on Jan 6, 2019 2:38:35 GMT
Wahoo!
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Post by livewaaaaagh on Jan 6, 2019 15:43:50 GMT
The way I interpret the "Hawk Eye Archer" rule, a Waystalker cannot do a "normal attack". Its rule specifies that before doing a shooting attach, they need to choose one or the other. And the Bow simply adds Multiple Shots. So while it wouldn't stack with Fast Shot, I don't see why it wouldn't stack with Aimed Shot.
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least in theory.
