Informal Analysis of Razordons Many Uses
Jan 7, 2019 23:22:05 GMT
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Post by saniles on Jan 7, 2019 23:22:05 GMT
I like my Razordon model. It is the best use of dry brushing I have ever done. It is my only purple lizard, making it the baddest purple dinosaur since the big one (Barney). I will never be able to duplicate him because of the secret mix of paints I used (actually it was saurus skin blue and saurus shield red....but in what proportions?
)
(I'll insert a photo when the model comes out of storage - home renovations have hit the hobby room)
You also all know I have a soft spot for my hunting packs.
huntingpack.jpg
Visit "Spawning of Bob - Keeping Lustrian War Beasts" www.lustria-online.com/threads/spawning-of-bob-keeping-lustrian-war-beasts.10703/
I've been doing my first proper read of the new army book with with the BRB in my other hand, and I'm liking what I see.
RAZORDONS
They are Monstrous Beasts. Therefore: steadfast with 3 models, get stomp and swift stride! (they were always swiftstride as warbeasts but I never noticed before) I like the idea of charging into the flank or rear of some stalled / doomed combat from extreme long range (11 inch charge 81% probability, 15 inch charge 52%). "But I thought they were shooting units, now they've broken me and pursued my unit to death!" That infantry unit you broke has only an 18% chance of fleeing to safety from your swift striding 'dons (12.3% if your infantry block pursue as well) (go look at the fabulous tactica post "Cold Blooded Probability" www.lustria-online.com/threads/cold-blooded-probability.10479/
They can lay on some attacks in CC. 2x WS3 @ S5, 3x WS2 @ S3, at I4 and then a S5 stomp. Would you put on Wyssan's or Hand of Glory on these guys to sway the combat? Maybe, if they were striking at higher initiative than a small group of opponents, or if you needed to land some S6 hits, or want to avoid annihilation and a panic test with your nearby pathetic Ld5 Skinks.
:jawdrop: They cause fear. If they successfully cause fear (rolled at the start of every round of combat) they'll all be hitting on a 3+. And so will your Saurus, Scrox and Temple Guard who are already in the combat.
Skirmish + Aquatic (I'm so pleased they kept the "Aquatic" army rule - some of my old jokes rely on it). Skirmish = +1 to hit at range. In a river, marsh, or forest they are +2 to hit at range. In a forest they are always steadfast. Sit in that forest and pepper the foe. Tempt that ranked up unit to charge you. THEY will lose their steadfast as soon as they have the majority of the models in YOUR jungle. Follow up charge with your steg (always stubborn) and watch the suckers break.
They can suck up some hits. Skirmish makes them harder to hit at range (+1 to hit), and ranged, magic and CC attacks are resolved against T4, AS 5+ and 2 wounds. BUT with the Monster and Handlers rule (BRB 73) "When the monster suffers an unsaved wound, Roll a D6. On a roll of 1-4 the monster suffers the wound as normal, but on a roll of 5-6 a handler model is removed instead." As good for the Razordon as a 5+ ward save! (Not so good for the handler, but you didn't really expect to be bringing too many of those home, did you?)
:astronaut: Range is now up to 18". Artillery dice give an average of 5 shots (and 16.6% chance of.... lets not talk about it). At 9" short range 4+ will hit, up to 18" its 5+. There is no Multishot penalty (rules as for grapeshot). Quick to fire means no penalty for movement. Sadly they can't march and fire (Army Book is explicit). That's still a 24 inch, no penalty threat range. That's better than arrows of Asaph! (except for hitting targets in cover, targets out to 24" etc, etc, etc. But my model is A PURPLE DINOSAUR!!!!!)
Instinctive Defense. Must stand and shoot = don't face your enemy directly if you want to be a redirector or part of a double flee. You've got unlimited free reforms, so choose your battles. If you do stand and shoot, go roll a snack dice. If you don't like the roll INCLUDING A MISFIRE, then reroll it! That's right, only a 3% chance of failing to fire and needing to send a telegram (or 3) home to the Temple City. The old rules had a 33% chance of your adored pet chowing down on Paddy, Mick and/or Sean. Sean likes these odds better. Paddy and Mick have absolutely no idea what's going on.
Someone else can do the math-hammer of the threshold artillery dice roll which would benefit from a re-roll (please). I think a 2/3 chance of a better result would be acceptable.
:artist: At around 80% of the point cost of a Salamander, these guys might be a better deal, especially if you aren't chasing big blocks. A Sally will only put 1x S4 hit on a warmachine, monster or lone mage per round. But you don't want to use your sallies for that!
So compare with Terradon rider units of 3 (@ 1.61x the cost of 'dons) which can drop rocks for D3 S4 hits each (average 4.5 hits) once per game, plus Bolas at 1.5 flaming S4 hits per round (at only 3 inch range) = Total of 13.5 ranged hits per game max.
Spike will put on 2.5 hits per round at 9". Maybe he won't fire on turn 1, so lets say 12.5 ranged S4 hits per game. That's a 1:1.49 points per ranged hit ratio in favour of Spike.
He's also a safer bet in combat. Bob's Logic: Assuming combat with very ordinary core (WS3, S3, T3 and not counting armour saves) Spike and handlers can hit with his 6x attacks (2x WS3 @ S5, 3x WS2 @ S3, +1x stomp @ S5) at the same initiative as those 3 Terradon show ponies (with 6 attacks @ WS2 and s3, and 3x S3 stomps).
I say that Spike (and 3 snacks) makes 2.41 hits and wounds before saves, 1.67 of those at S5 (including stomp). Terry and his show-offs make 6 hits and only 3 wounds with no armour modifiers at all.
The purchase points per CC wound ratio is 1:1.29 in favour of Spike, not counting those S5 wounds busting some 5+ armour.
Add to that that I can't seem to permanently glue my Terradon riders onto the back of my metal terradons, they look ugly, won't rank up because their silly wings stick out, and I haven't managed to put them on their flying stands after 2 years.
THE PURPLE DINOSAUR WINS!!!!!
No, not Barney. The other one.
Disclaimer: As a General, Bob draws excellent stick figures. Bob hasn't actually played a game since who knows when, and the last ones were against a hapless goblins list with no spiders (who sat back against their table edge to shoot, and generally fled off the board as soon as a Stegadon or Cowboy sneezed at them) and some Tomb Kings (who didn't flee, for some technical reason). I have posted this drivel to as a conversation starter to invite comment about how you think it is best to use PURPLE DINOSAURS TO CONQUER EVERYONE!!!!!
Edit: Razordons can't March and Fire :depressed:
)(I'll insert a photo when the model comes out of storage - home renovations have hit the hobby room)
You also all know I have a soft spot for my hunting packs.
huntingpack.jpg
Visit "Spawning of Bob - Keeping Lustrian War Beasts" www.lustria-online.com/threads/spawning-of-bob-keeping-lustrian-war-beasts.10703/
I've been doing my first proper read of the new army book with with the BRB in my other hand, and I'm liking what I see.
RAZORDONS
They are Monstrous Beasts. Therefore: steadfast with 3 models, get stomp and swift stride! (they were always swiftstride as warbeasts but I never noticed before) I like the idea of charging into the flank or rear of some stalled / doomed combat from extreme long range (11 inch charge 81% probability, 15 inch charge 52%). "But I thought they were shooting units, now they've broken me and pursued my unit to death!" That infantry unit you broke has only an 18% chance of fleeing to safety from your swift striding 'dons (12.3% if your infantry block pursue as well) (go look at the fabulous tactica post "Cold Blooded Probability" www.lustria-online.com/threads/cold-blooded-probability.10479/
They can lay on some attacks in CC. 2x WS3 @ S5, 3x WS2 @ S3, at I4 and then a S5 stomp. Would you put on Wyssan's or Hand of Glory on these guys to sway the combat? Maybe, if they were striking at higher initiative than a small group of opponents, or if you needed to land some S6 hits, or want to avoid annihilation and a panic test with your nearby pathetic Ld5 Skinks.:jawdrop: They cause fear. If they successfully cause fear (rolled at the start of every round of combat) they'll all be hitting on a 3+. And so will your Saurus, Scrox and Temple Guard who are already in the combat.
Skirmish + Aquatic (I'm so pleased they kept the "Aquatic" army rule - some of my old jokes rely on it). Skirmish = +1 to hit at range. In a river, marsh, or forest they are +2 to hit at range. In a forest they are always steadfast. Sit in that forest and pepper the foe. Tempt that ranked up unit to charge you. THEY will lose their steadfast as soon as they have the majority of the models in YOUR jungle. Follow up charge with your steg (always stubborn) and watch the suckers break.
They can suck up some hits. Skirmish makes them harder to hit at range (+1 to hit), and ranged, magic and CC attacks are resolved against T4, AS 5+ and 2 wounds. BUT with the Monster and Handlers rule (BRB 73) "When the monster suffers an unsaved wound, Roll a D6. On a roll of 1-4 the monster suffers the wound as normal, but on a roll of 5-6 a handler model is removed instead." As good for the Razordon as a 5+ ward save! (Not so good for the handler, but you didn't really expect to be bringing too many of those home, did you?):astronaut: Range is now up to 18". Artillery dice give an average of 5 shots (and 16.6% chance of.... lets not talk about it). At 9" short range 4+ will hit, up to 18" its 5+. There is no Multishot penalty (rules as for grapeshot). Quick to fire means no penalty for movement. Sadly they can't march and fire (Army Book is explicit). That's still a 24 inch, no penalty threat range. That's better than arrows of Asaph! (except for hitting targets in cover, targets out to 24" etc, etc, etc. But my model is A PURPLE DINOSAUR!!!!!)
Instinctive Defense. Must stand and shoot = don't face your enemy directly if you want to be a redirector or part of a double flee. You've got unlimited free reforms, so choose your battles. If you do stand and shoot, go roll a snack dice. If you don't like the roll INCLUDING A MISFIRE, then reroll it! That's right, only a 3% chance of failing to fire and needing to send a telegram (or 3) home to the Temple City. The old rules had a 33% chance of your adored pet chowing down on Paddy, Mick and/or Sean. Sean likes these odds better. Paddy and Mick have absolutely no idea what's going on.Someone else can do the math-hammer of the threshold artillery dice roll which would benefit from a re-roll (please). I think a 2/3 chance of a better result would be acceptable.
:artist: At around 80% of the point cost of a Salamander, these guys might be a better deal, especially if you aren't chasing big blocks. A Sally will only put 1x S4 hit on a warmachine, monster or lone mage per round. But you don't want to use your sallies for that!
So compare with Terradon rider units of 3 (@ 1.61x the cost of 'dons) which can drop rocks for D3 S4 hits each (average 4.5 hits) once per game, plus Bolas at 1.5 flaming S4 hits per round (at only 3 inch range) = Total of 13.5 ranged hits per game max.
Spike will put on 2.5 hits per round at 9". Maybe he won't fire on turn 1, so lets say 12.5 ranged S4 hits per game. That's a 1:1.49 points per ranged hit ratio in favour of Spike.
He's also a safer bet in combat. Bob's Logic: Assuming combat with very ordinary core (WS3, S3, T3 and not counting armour saves) Spike and handlers can hit with his 6x attacks (2x WS3 @ S5, 3x WS2 @ S3, +1x stomp @ S5) at the same initiative as those 3 Terradon show ponies (with 6 attacks @ WS2 and s3, and 3x S3 stomps).
I say that Spike (and 3 snacks) makes 2.41 hits and wounds before saves, 1.67 of those at S5 (including stomp). Terry and his show-offs make 6 hits and only 3 wounds with no armour modifiers at all.
The purchase points per CC wound ratio is 1:1.29 in favour of Spike, not counting those S5 wounds busting some 5+ armour.
Add to that that I can't seem to permanently glue my Terradon riders onto the back of my metal terradons, they look ugly, won't rank up because their silly wings stick out, and I haven't managed to put them on their flying stands after 2 years.
THE PURPLE DINOSAUR WINS!!!!!
No, not Barney. The other one.
Disclaimer: As a General, Bob draws excellent stick figures. Bob hasn't actually played a game since who knows when, and the last ones were against a hapless goblins list with no spiders (who sat back against their table edge to shoot, and generally fled off the board as soon as a Stegadon or Cowboy sneezed at them) and some Tomb Kings (who didn't flee, for some technical reason). I have posted this drivel to as a conversation starter to invite comment about how you think it is best to use PURPLE DINOSAURS TO CONQUER EVERYONE!!!!!
Edit: Razordons can't March and Fire :depressed:
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