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Post by strutsagget on Jan 25, 2019 11:53:13 GMT
So how do you resolve/move the models if the one issuing challenge is not in base contact with an enemy?
Example ogres have a character in a corner but the unit is engaged in its opposite flank.
Do you just pretend they are in combat, do models lose their possible attack if the character stays in place is in the way?
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Post by crownprinceimrik on Jan 25, 2019 13:31:37 GMT
The model that accepts the challenge moves into base contact with the challenger. In your example that isn't possible if the Ogre issued without the accepting model leaving the unit that it is in, so I think in this case you don't move any models and just assume that they are in base contact. That's a bit strange, though, so I'd have the Ogre Make Way to be in B2B with the other unit, and then do the challenge from there. If the Ogre Character swaps place with another Ogre taking that R&F Ogre out of the fight, I think it does lose its attacks. This one is a bit weird because the Challenge movement rules are super vague.
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Post by strutsagget on Jan 25, 2019 14:12:59 GMT
I am trying to find where it says you move the challenger. All I find is you move the accepting model and if that is not possible you pretend  |
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Post by strutsagget on Jan 25, 2019 14:19:13 GMT
“FIGHTING A CHALLENGE
If a character accepts the challenge, move him into base contact with the challenger – after all, what good is the narrative of a challenge without the visual reality? If, for whatever reason, this is not possible, assume that the two models are in base contact (this might require a little gumption to work out, so it’s best to move the model if you can). These two characters must direct all “of their attacks against each other – they cannot be attacked by any other model for that round of close combat.”
Excerpt From
WARHAMMER RULEBOOK
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Post by crownprinceimrik on Jan 25, 2019 14:48:38 GMT
Yeah, no where does it say you would move the challenger. So I suppose if you wanted to get the most attacks you could leave the Ogre character in the corner and then since the accepting model cannot be moved to meet the challenge neither model moves, at which point all the Ogres that could normally fight still get to fight. The rules are very unclear here. I suggested moving the issuing model using the Make Way rule just because it makes thematic sense, I don't think there's any rule that actually requires it or suggests that you do it.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jan 25, 2019 16:38:46 GMT
What crownprinceimrik said. The BRB rules are confirmed by
BRB Official Update Version 1.9, p. 11:
Q: After accepting a challenge must the challenged model always move into base contact with the enemy model that issued the challenge? (p102)
A: If the challenged model is on his own then he must move into base contact. If the challenged model is in a unit he must move as long as it does not require leaving his unit. Where it is not possible for base contact to be made then leave the models where they are and simply assume that the two models are in base contact.
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Post by strutsagget on Jan 25, 2019 16:53:37 GMT
A bad picture of the situation.  In this case the green champ issues a challenge and the red accept. As it can't be moved they stay in place. Would the yellow lose it's attacks? Would the red second row behind the champ be able to attack the yellow? |
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Post by DiscoQing on Jan 25, 2019 16:53:39 GMT
Go old school and remove your characters from the unit, and fight there XD
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Post by crownprinceimrik on Jan 25, 2019 16:59:34 GMT
Yellow would not lose its attacks and the second red would get to fight because they are in contact to fight as normally and since it's not possible for the Red Unit Champion to move to meet the challenge from the Green Champion. The Red and Green champions are assumed to be in base contact for the purposes of the challenge but outside of that the combat is fought as normal. If Red issued the challenge, then the Green champion would have to move to where Yellow is, Yellow would lose it's attacks, and unless the second rank of Red is able to corner-to-corner the adjacent Green model it would lose its attacks.
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Post by strutsagget on Jan 25, 2019 17:04:48 GMT
Yellow would not lose its attacks and the second red would get to fight because they are in contact to fight as normally and since it's not possible for the Red Unit Champion to move to meet the challenge from the Green Champion. The Red and Green champions are assumed to be in base contact for the purposes of the challenge but outside of that the combat is fought as normal. If Red issued the challenge, then the Green champion would have to move to where Yellow is, Yellow would lose it's attacks, and unless the second rank of Red is able to corner-to-corner the adjacent Green model it would lose its attacks. Why would yellow be allowed to attack? It is only in base combat with a champion in a challenge. |
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Post by crownprinceimrik on Jan 25, 2019 17:11:08 GMT
Ah, very correct. If it's not corner-to-corner with that other red model then it would not. Sorry, wasn't paying close enough attention.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Feb 13, 2019 14:47:59 GMT
Go old school and remove your characters from the unit, and fight there XD Yeah this is what I do Just off to the side of the main combat. |
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Post by Horace on Feb 15, 2019 11:11:51 GMT
I had a funny situation like this in the last game I played. The thing which compounded the problem was we didn't move the models as soon as the combat started so it ended up being a really complicated dogpile. Also I think shrinking units may have come into play too. The Chaos Knights Champion was in a challenge with the Empire Knights Champion and was struggling to dispatch him as he was under a constant cloud of Soulblight. In the end we played it that the Chaos Lord & BSB lost their attacks and moved the Chaos Champion into base contact with the Empire Knights Champion. This allowed the Halberds to pile all their attacks into the Chaos Knights. This didn't really feel like a satisfactory result though. I am not 100% sure how the make way rules could be applied here either.  |
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Post by strutsagget on Feb 17, 2019 7:10:12 GMT
What I find weird is this creates situations where second rank support attack can attack a model that is not allowed to do any attacks back.
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Post by Horace on Feb 17, 2019 14:15:09 GMT
How so?
I still don't really understand if we played it correctly.
I assume from this thread that I shouldn't have moved my champion since he issued the challenge, that my Lord & BSB should have lost their attacks since only in b2b contact with his champion, and that the Halberdiers would also be unable to strike because also no b2b
Seems silly though
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