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Post by relentlesss on Apr 12, 2019 14:37:39 GMT
Great advice as always gang
we actually have a slow grow kicking off june I think, so will work well
excited!
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Post by Sweet_Totally on Apr 12, 2019 14:48:21 GMT
I've never actually tried out a Daemonic Steed so take what I say with a grain of salt but yes, IMO the lord is better off on a normal steed since it keeps him from being targeted by artillery and magic. The Lord is safe enough with a 4+ wardsave and 1+ armour save that losing the additional T that the Daemonic Mount brings isn't too much of a loss. The lord on daemonic steed cannot be targeted any more easily than a normal steed so long as he's embedded in the unit of Knights so I don't see it as an issue. He's got a larger base which will make him a bit more vulnerable to CC attacks but he's pretty tanky as is and the extra toughness helps with that. The Daemonic Mount is a different Troop Type than the Knights Steeds' and can thus be individually targeted by shooting and magic when inside the Knight unit.
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Post by crownprinceimrik on Apr 12, 2019 15:53:16 GMT
I disagree though I admit this section of the rules is unfamiliar to me. The rules on pg 99 of the BRB say nothing about spells so the character cannot be targeted separately. BS based shooting will also hit the unit before the character unless there are as many hits as Knights at which point they begin to spill over. The only thing the character becomes more susceptible to is template weapons because he will lose the Look Out Sir, but outside of cannons most template weapons aren't very accurate so I think it could be a fine trade off for an extra point of Toughness, though it could depend on how many cannons the list will fight.
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Post by strutsagget on Apr 12, 2019 16:54:32 GMT
“SHOOTING ‘Normal’ shooting attacks – by which we mean to say shooting attacks that use the firer’s Ballistic Skill – cannot hit a character in a combined unit if there are five or more rank and file models from the same troop type (including musician and standard bearer, but not the champion) left in the unit. We assume that the enemy cannot pick the character out. All hits are allocated onto the unit’s rank and file models.
If there are fewer than five rank-and-file models left in the unit (or the character is of a different troop type) there is a chance that any characters in the unit could be hit – the controlling player decides who is hit, but must allocate one hit on each model before he can add a second hit on a model; he must allocate two hits on each model before he can allocate a third, and so on.
Unusual Shooting Attacks The only exceptions to this are shooting attacks that do not use the normal shooting rules, specifically, shooting attacks that use some form of template (such as cannons, stone throwers, breath weapons and so on).
If a character is hit by such an attack, and he is in a unit of at least 5 rank-and-file models (excluding the champion, if there is one) and he is of the same troop type as the unit, then his controlling player is permitted to make a “Look Out Sir!” roll to save him from harm. This works exactly as the “Look Out Sir!” rule as described in the Command Groups chapter. Simply put, on a roll of 2 or more, the hit does not strike the character, but instead is allocated to a rank-and-file model. If there are less than 5 rank-and-file models, the character does not get a “Look Out Sir!” roll and is hit.”
Excerpt From WARHAMMER RULEBOOK
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Post by crownprinceimrik on Apr 12, 2019 17:05:34 GMT
The hits are distributed as decided by the controller. So if I shoot the Chaos Knights with Archers or cast a magic missile at them the Chaos player can decide to allocate one hit to every Chaos Knight up to the unit of 9 before any go onto the Sorcerer. 1-9 hits doesn't hit the Sorcerer, 10-19 hits taps the Sorcerer once. It's not much of a risky move. Once the unit gets depleted risk goes up of course, but not by a drastic amount.
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Post by strutsagget on Apr 12, 2019 17:07:40 GMT
Removed
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Post by crownprinceimrik on Apr 12, 2019 17:22:08 GMT
No, the key part of the rule is that second paragraph under normal shooting attacks. "If there are fewer than five rank-and-file models left in the unit (or the character is of a different troop type) there is a chance that any characters in the unit could be hit - the controlling player decides who is hit...."
Unless it's a template based attack the hits can all be distributed to R&F models before the character gets hit because the controlling player decides who gets hit. As long as you don't get hit more times than there are models the character need never be hit by a magic missile or bow fire.
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Post by strutsagget on Apr 12, 2019 17:25:19 GMT
No, the key part of the rule is that second paragraph under normal shooting attacks. "If there are fewer than five rank-and-file models left in the unit (or the character is of a different troop type) there is a chance that any characters in the unit could be hit - the controlling player decides who is hit...." Unless it's a template based attack the hits can all be distributed to R&F models before the character gets hit because the controlling player decides who gets hit. As long as you don't get hit more times than there are models the character need never be hit by a magic missile or bow fire. I crawl under my rock in shame... 😂 why is it so hard to read...
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Post by crownprinceimrik on Apr 12, 2019 17:32:37 GMT
Hahaha, I know the feeling! I've read so many rules wrong only to suddenly have the "ooooohhh" moment. 🤣
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Post by Sweet_Totally on Apr 14, 2019 10:02:00 GMT
Holy fudge, man! This is a game changer for me. I can finally put my character on a Palanquin of Nurgle or a Daemonic Mount without feeling exposed!
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Post by relentlesss on Apr 14, 2019 22:44:11 GMT
So Demonic mount FTW???
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Post by crownprinceimrik on Apr 14, 2019 22:49:30 GMT
As long as you aren't expecting large numbers of cannon, I'd say yeah!
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Post by sophid on Apr 14, 2019 23:17:39 GMT
Does 'rank and file' include units that are skirmishers?
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Post by strutsagget on Apr 15, 2019 4:53:46 GMT
Does 'rank and file' include units that are skirmishers? Yes, but also depends on what you mean. I think They have RnF models but: “Skirmishers always count as having zero ranks, and therefore cannot claim a rank bonus, be steadfast, or disorder an enemy with a flank or rear attack – they make supporting attacks as normal, however.” “On the other hand, units of Skirmishers (and lone infantry characters) are always Stubborn if the majority of their models is in a forest”
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Post by sophid on Apr 15, 2019 12:34:50 GMT
Does 'rank and file' include units that are skirmishers? Yes, but also depends on what you mean. I think They have RnF models but: “Skirmishers always count as having zero ranks, and therefore cannot claim a rank bonus, be steadfast, or disorder an enemy with a flank or rear attack – they make supporting attacks as normal, however.” “On the other hand, units of Skirmishers (and lone infantry characters) are always Stubborn if the majority of their models is in a forest”
I was looking at if from the angle of whether a skirmishing unit can serve as a character bunker.
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