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Post by wilsonthenarc on Feb 23, 2016 20:35:38 GMT
...a boss or a shaman on a wolf and you have one of the best combinations in the game. Super speed, a decent loadout and those warmachines are toast. I played a guy at a tourney who had 3 level 1 goblin Heroes on Wolves, running as solo characters. They did SO MUCH during the game, all for the low low cost of 55 points/ea, I think. -Charge in to tip a tied/grinding combat with that +1 combat res --Harass war machines ---Charge block (kinda like Sabretusks) with funky angles ----Make a suicide run against a wizard with 1 W left (3 A's, 3 tries to kill a weak character)
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Post by gjnoronh on Feb 23, 2016 21:39:14 GMT
I do love goblin heroes on wolves. Put me in the NG favoring group though far be it from me to disagree with the Goblin King himself. I just think you are going to want to keep folks in the LD bubble for goblins irrespective of flavor and the I and equipment benefits are well worth it. Besides NG stuff is cooler
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That Guy
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Post by That Guy on Feb 24, 2016 20:53:57 GMT
Is it enough if I run one unit of melee goblins with 40 models and one unit of shooty goblins at 20 models?
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Post by KevinC on Feb 25, 2016 3:37:05 GMT
Is it enough if I run one unit of melee goblins with 40 models and one unit of shooty goblins at 20 models? --------By "melee goblins" you mean what? Goblins with light armour & shield? Or Night Goblins? Also, it's best to know in the context of the entire army list. But ordinary - yes, a unit of 40 Goblins work. If you are going with 20 shooty Goblins, it's better to have them Night Goblins. This way they control opponent movement with the possibility of fanatics. Both small "bluff" units and units with actual fanatics can be very effective in disrupting your opponent's psychology and tactics...
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Post by grandmasterwang on Feb 25, 2016 12:43:34 GMT
Here are my thoughts: First, roughtimes has it right. I've always preferred common Goblins over Night/Forest Goblins because of aesthetics. And I do believe this is why anyone should choose armies/models/units – because you like the look of them best! In game terms, Night Goblins have always (arguably) had the edge over common Goblins, but in 8th edition I believe common Goblins are the better choice overall, though each type of Goblin has its own advantages. Common Goblin Pros
• Leadership 6 (this is a big deal, especially for an army made of entirely Goblins with no Orcs). • Better Equipment Options. Light armour & shield makes a difference with a 5+ armour and a 6+ ward for 3.5 pts per Goblin. Further you can add short bows on top of this, for a combined light armour, shields and short bows (4 points a Gobbo!). This makes a huge mob of Gobbos both 'shooty & fighty.' Indeed, this is my favorite way to arm Goblins - they are like the Goblin 'Seaguard.' • Nasty Skulkers. Most people underestimate these guys and they don't receive enough credit. For a total of 30 points, you get three of them (10 pts each). That's 9 ASF, Armour Piercing attacks (with Killing Blow on the first turn). They can cause series damage (for Goblin anyway!) and can make even Chaos Lords on foot or cav cower - you just need that one lucky 6! Whats more is that Nasty Skulkers are cheaper than a big boss (a Goblin Big Boss is 35 points base or 30 for a Night Goblin), can do more damage, and don't give away victory points when they die (you have to destroy the entire unit). This makes them better than Goblin heroes! Night Goblin Pros
• Initiative 3, is one point higher than common Goblins. Makes a big difference against other low initiative troops - Dwarfs, Ogres, Orcs, etc. • Hatred (Dwarfs). Dwarfs have always been a traditional tough army to fight against for Goblin armies. The Hatred helps a lot (especially with Squig Herds). • Cheapest base-troop Goblin. For 3 points you get either a Night Goblin with shield or with short bow. As opposed to common Goblins who only come with light armour at 3 points. To get the most out of the common Goblins you need to give them at least one more piece of equipment (say shields for .5 points). But Night Goblins are fine as is for just 3 points. • Fanatics. Fanatics are nice, of course, and they can cause decent damage and make your opponent second guess himself. However, they are overrated by most players. 25 points is a lot for them. In my typical 2,500-point army or less, I rarely field more than two. Once you start spending 75 points or more on fanatics it becomes a massive investment. For example, you can get a Mangler Squig for 65 points - 10 points cheaper than 3 fanatics! • Netters. Nets are a good option. But again 45 points for the whole unit is a lot, for 5 more points you could have another Goblin Chariot. Still, Night Goblin Mobs with shields and nets can be very dangerous. If you buy nets, the unit should be no less than 50 models. That way nets work out to be less than 1 point per model. The larger the unit the more cost efficient. In game terms, these are the differences of the two Goblin infantry types from the O&G book. But you might want to try out Dust Goblins, Hill Goblins, Fire Kobolds, Forest Goblins, Chaos Goblins, Skargobbos, or even Hobgoblins... That was a very good summary!
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Feb 25, 2016 13:08:47 GMT
Kevin is planet earth's foremost authority on Warhammer goblins.
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That Guy
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Post by That Guy on Feb 26, 2016 19:44:37 GMT
------By "melee goblins" you mean what? Goblins with light armour & shield? Or Night Goblins? Also, it's best to know in the context of the entire army list. But ordinary - yes, a unit of 40 Goblins work. If you are going with 20 shooty Goblins, it's better to have them Night Goblins. This way they control opponent movement with the possibility of fanatics. Both small "bluff" units and units with actual fanatics can be very effective in disrupting your opponent's psychology and tactics... I will be honest, I think I settled with night goblins because the models are more accurately sized even though regular goblins look cooler. And it's differe. Goblins are goblins in most fantasy settings but night goblins are unique, fanatics and fluff is funny. So yeah melee night gobbos and shooty night gobbos. I will even be further honest, I am not sure if I like the shooty goblins at all. Even a unit of 20 high elf archers don't do enough and they are 12" farther shot and better bs. I don't even think shortbows are worth anything.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Feb 26, 2016 20:47:37 GMT
20 elfs are expensive. 20 goblins are like 1/5th the points...
A unit of 30 shooty shots will do 1 W to just about anything over 2 or 3 turns. Even with 5's to hit and 5's to wound, those Demigryph Knights will eventually roll a 1 on their armor saves!
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Post by KevinC on Feb 26, 2016 21:19:59 GMT
------By "melee goblins" you mean what? Goblins with light armour & shield? Or Night Goblins? Also, it's best to know in the context of the entire army list. But ordinary - yes, a unit of 40 Goblins work. If you are going with 20 shooty Goblins, it's better to have them Night Goblins. This way they control opponent movement with the possibility of fanatics. Both small "bluff" units and units with actual fanatics can be very effective in disrupting your opponent's psychology and tactics... I will be honest, I think I settled with night goblins because the models are more accurately sized even though regular goblins look cooler. And it's differe. Goblins are goblins in most fantasy settings but night goblins are unique, fanatics and fluff is funny. So yeah melee night gobbos and shooty night gobbos. I will even be further honest, I am not sure if I like the shooty goblins at all. Even a unit of 20 high elf archers don't do enough and they are 12" farther shot and better bs. I don't even think shortbows are worth anything. That Guy, that's totally fine. Most players disagree with me.Regarding archers...it all depends. I find archers (of all kinds) extremely useful. Volley Fire is awesome. And many times, if you merely remove one or two wounds from a unit, war machine, chariot, monster or whatever, if can make a big difference in the long run of the battle. Good luck!
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That Guy
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Post by That Guy on Feb 26, 2016 21:52:46 GMT
Well I kinda already bought night goblins before any of this then I started reading about the differences. If I could redo it I'd probably get regular goblins for 4 points being a gobbo swamp guard is bad ass, but I already invested in 3 boxes of night gobbos.
Its not that I dis agree with you Kevin at all. I greatly appreciate your breakdown and advice.
It was very unbiased considering you favor the mostly underfavored regular goblins but you were honest about both types of goblins.
Because I still play AoS too I am trying to build crossover lists between both systems and trying to model accordingly.
I like the point out of night goblin archers being considerably cheaper in comparison.
So I have 60 night goblins. 20 will have shortbows, out of the other 40 I am using 3 that I will convert to a shaman and a war boss and big boss bsb. So out of 37 9 will have nets (in AoS netters are crazy) and the other 28 will be mostly swords and shields, a few spears cause spears look cool.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Feb 27, 2016 1:12:09 GMT
Kevin is planet earth's foremost authority on Warhammer goblins. It would appear so haha. I completely randomly just looked at an old (2005) White Dwarf i had left lying around (Ultramarines terminators on cover) and what do i see inside but none other than a Gnoblar (gnoblars are a type of goblin) army list by none other than Kevin Coleman I'm assuming that KevinC is this KevinC given the IndyGT Chaos Dwarf list.
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Post by dannytee on Feb 27, 2016 19:51:26 GMT
I'm assuming that KevinC is this KevinC given the IndyGT Chaos Dwarf list. One in the same.
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Post by dannytee on Feb 27, 2016 19:52:34 GMT
Unless you have a ton of old metal Goblins or Forest Goblins I would go with Night Goblins. A ton of old metal goblins is exactly what Kevin has, and it is awesome.
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Post by Anton on Feb 28, 2016 7:03:40 GMT
Unless you have a ton of old metal Goblins or Forest Goblins I would go with Night Goblins. A ton of old metal goblins is exactly what Kevin has, and it is awesome. I'm sure he does, but unless he's sharing that doesn't help the OP much.
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That Guy
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Post by That Guy on Feb 29, 2016 15:16:21 GMT
Well I kinda already bought night goblins before any of this then I started reading about the differences. Because I still play AoS too I am trying to build crossover lists between both systems and trying to model accordingly. I like the point out of night goblin archers being considerably cheaper in comparison. So I have 60 night goblins. 20 will have shortbows, out of the other 40 I am using 3 that I will convert to a shaman and a war boss and big boss bsb. So out of 37 9 will have nets (in AoS netters are crazy) and the other 28 will be mostly swords and shields, a few spears cause spears look cool. This? Is it worth it to have the night goblins at 37 models or is that to few?
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