'successfully cast'. what does that mean. After reading the BRB section more intensely than I really like to, I now think it means you cast the spell by rolling high enough on the cast roll and then if your opponent fails to dispel (or chooses not to), the spell becomes successfully cast. What's the verdict?
(specifically this came up with the VC lore attribute and if it kicks in if the spell gets dispelled. But, I think the question pops up in other situations too)
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 13, 2020 23:21:20 GMT
One can never read the BRB too intensely enough... But you are quite correct: if the cast result is high enough, the spell is cast - but not successfully. A spell is only successfully cast, if the casting result equals or exceeds the spell's casting value AND has not been dispelled or neutralised in another way by the opposing player.
BRB p. 32: If the casting result equals or exceeds the spell's casting value, the spell is cast (though it may be subsequently dispelled and neutralised by the opposing player, as we'll discuss later). If the result is less than the casting value, the casting attempt has failed. The spell is not cast.
BRB p. 36: If the enemy has foiled his dispel attempt (or not even attempted one!), the spell is cast successfully and its effect is now resolved.
A bit of a follow up. They VC lore attribute kicks in once the spell is successfully cast. Seems like that is also when the spell effect is resolved. What's the order then? Specifically, can I use invocation of nehek to bring back a multi-wound model (on one wound) and then use the lore attribute to heal a wound on that same model?
Post by gregwarhamsters on Feb 16, 2020 23:10:18 GMT
Just off the cuff then. Lizardmen (Slann) on high magic may therefore only swap spells if the it actually goes off not just makes the casting value? Seems a bit double edged (but I'll go with the general consensus)that you make the cast successfully but then be denied by a mere dispel
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 17, 2020 9:48:30 GMT
Not sure why it is would be double-edged? Or do you mean, you would just cast a spell to get rid of it and thus might have wasted power dice?
Note also BRB Official Update Version 1.9, p. 13 & 14:
Q: Does the Roiling Skies Lore Attribute require you to successfully cast the spell before its effect can be applied?(Reference) A: Yes.
Q: When the Transformation of Kadon transforms a Wizard into a monster with a Breath Weapon, how often can he use that Breath Weapon? (Reference) A: A Wizard can use the Breath Weapon up to once each time he has successfully cast the spell (whilst he is still transformed of course!).
However, there is one instance where an AB author clearly mistook "successfully cast" for "achieving the minimum casting value."
Vampire Counts AB, p. 61 (Dark Acolyte): The Vampire adds D3 to the casting total whenever he successfully casts Invocation of Nehek (regardless of the casting value chosen).
This was rectified by Vampire Counts Official Update Version 1.1, p.2:
Q: Does a character with Dark Acolyte add D3 to their casting total for Invocation of Nehek before or after their opponent attempts to dispel? (p61) A: Before.
But it would have been better if they had issued an Erratum, rephrasing the rule into, for instance: "The Vampire adds D3 to the casting total whenever he casts Invocation of Nehek (regardless of the casting value chosen), provided the initial casting total already equalled or exceeded the spell's casting value."
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 17, 2020 12:14:27 GMT
On a side note: the reason for the error regarding Dark Acolyth may not be a misinterpretation of "successfully casts." An Erratum that exists only for the French AB indicates that a previous version of Dark Acolyth added D3 to the spell resolution result, which, quite obviously, can only happen after a successful cast. In the final version, this changed to D3 to the casting result, but they forgot to delete or change the "successfully casts."
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 19, 2020 17:07:21 GMT
Given the Dark Acolyth error, I would like to add another clear example of "successful cast = casting value achieved and not dispelled" from the Vampire Counts AB itself (p. 40):
"Unholy Lodestone: When a friendly Wizard within 6" of an Unholy Lodestone successfully casts Invocation of Nehek (see page 60), he may re-roll a single D6 to determine how many Wounds are restored for each eligible infantry unit."
"Beam of Chotec: Innate bound spell (power level 3). Beam of Chotec is a magic missile with a range of 24". If successfully cast, roll a D6 and consult the table below to determine the Strength and number of hits (as well as any other effects) caused by this spell. All hits caused by Beam of Chotec are Flaming Attacks."
"The Stellar Staff: Arcane Item. If Tetto’eko successfully casts the spell Comet of Casandora (see Lore of Heavens), you may re-roll the dice at the start of each Magic phase to see if the comet arrives."
I also found another example, where the AB writer seems to have made the same error (although the end result is the same): the Dark Magic Lore Attribute in the Dark Elves and Wood Elves ABs.
Dark Elves AB p. 61:
"Spiteful Conjuration (Lore Attribute): When a Dark Elf Wizard successfully casts a hex, magic missile or direct damage spell from this lore, the spell is not dispelled, and the casting roll contains any double, the spell's target suffers 2D6 Strength 1 hits with the Armour Piercing special rule. If the casting roll contains any treble, the spell's target instead suffers 3D6 Strength 1 hits with the Armour Piercing special rule. In either case, the hits are resolved after the spell has been resolved."
Wood Elves AB p. 61:
"Wrath of the Wood (Lore Attribute): Whenever a Wood Elf Wizard successfully casts a spell from this lore, and the spell is not dispelled, place a vengeance counter next to each target once the spell has been resolved (do not place counters next to friendly units). Whenever a unit with vengeance counters suffers hits from a spell from the Lore of Dark Magic, remove those counters and increase the number of hits inflicted by D3 for each vengeance counter removed (roll separately for each counter)."
That said, as I have observed years ago, sometimes GW will make a completely superfluous statement to the effect that normal rules apply. From this, one cannot draw any other conclusion than that normal rules apply. For instance, a number of SC have the rule: "If you take X, he must be your BSB. He can never be your Army's General." Well, thank you for the reminder, but the fact that he is the BSB, already makes clear that he cannot be the General. So, one could catalogue the last two examples under the category of superfluous statement of the obvious.