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Post by tileag on Aug 19, 2020 1:38:15 GMT
So full disclosure, ive never ever played dark elves before and just looking to get opinions on this list 2500 points Supreme sorceress level 4 dark magic, sacrificial dagger, tailsman of preservation Master BSB, tailsman of endurance, sword of might, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, shield Sorceress level 2 lore of , dispell scroll 20 darkshards shields, musician, standard bearer 24 black arc corsairs, full command, repeater handbows 5 dark riders, musician, spears light armour War hydra fiery breath War hydra fiery breath 24 executioners full command 20 black guard full command Cold one chariot 5 doomfire warlocks
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Post by delflover5000 on Aug 19, 2020 10:29:57 GMT
First off, welcome to the greatest faction in Warhammer!!! There isn't really much wrong with your list but just a few points:
The sacrificial dagger with Darkshards/Corsairs is painful, they're are just too expensive and on average you need to kill two per die gained. Also keep in mind that Dark magic is somewhat short ranged, so taking a weakened unit on DS/Corsairs with a Lvl4 near your opponent is asking for disaster. I would just drop the dagger and put the scroll onto the Lvl4, at which point I don't think you need the Lvl2 with two other casters.
Reaper bolt throwers are cheap, efficient, clear chaff and can threaten monsters. If you can get the models then 2+ is probably an auto include, if you lose the lvl2 and replace the talisman of endurance with an enchanted shield for a 1+ save on the master you'll have the points. Without them I'd say more dark riders + put shields on the ones you have.
If you can find points for the amour piercing banner on the black guard it'll improve their combat performance significantly, or the +1LD banner makes them near unbreakable. Also I prefer to have my combat units in ranks of 7x3 to maximize damage output, this is what I think DE are good at and you break your opponents steadfast by quite simply murdering them before they can hit you. I'd be curious to see what others think about this though, but I've never found 5x4 to be all that great.
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Post by tileag on Aug 19, 2020 17:10:24 GMT
First off, welcome to the greatest faction in Warhammer!!! There isn't really much wrong with your list but just a few points: The sacrificial dagger with Darkshards/Corsairs is painful, they're are just too expensive and on average you need to kill two per die gained. Also keep in mind that Dark magic is somewhat short ranged, so taking a weakened unit on DS/Corsairs with a Lvl4 near your opponent is asking for disas ter. I would just drop the dagger and put the scroll onto the Lvl4, at which point I don't think you need the Lvl2 with two other casters. Reaper bolt throwers are cheap, efficient, clear chaff and can threaten monsters. If you can get the models then 2+ is probably an auto include, if you lose the lvl2 and replace the talisman of endurance with an enchanted shield for a 1+ save on the master you'll have the points. Without them I'd say more dark riders + put shields on the ones you have. If you can find points for the amour piercing banner on the black guard it'll improve their combat performance significantly, or the +1LD banner makes them near unbreakable. Also I prefer to have my combat units in ranks of 7x3 to maximize damage output, this is what I think DE are good at and you break your opponents steadfast by quite simply murdering them before they can hit you. I'd be curious to see what others think about this though, but I've never found 5x4 to be all that great. Thanks for the feedback. Ill take another look at this list and implementing some changes!
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Post by sedge on Aug 19, 2020 17:53:11 GMT
First off, welcome to the greatest faction in Warhammer!!! There isn't really much wrong with your list but just a few points: The sacrificial dagger with Darkshards/Corsairs is painful, they're are just too expensive and on average you need to kill two per die gained. Also keep in mind that Dark magic is somewhat short ranged, so taking a weakened unit on DS/Corsairs with a Lvl4 near your opponent is asking for disas ter. I would just drop the dagger and put the scroll onto the Lvl4, at which point I don't think you need the Lvl2 with two other casters. Reaper bolt throwers are cheap, efficient, clear chaff and can threaten monsters. If you can get the models then 2+ is probably an auto include, if you lose the lvl2 and replace the talisman of endurance with an enchanted shield for a 1+ save on the master you'll have the points. Without them I'd say more dark riders + put shields on the ones you have. If you can find points for the amour piercing banner on the black guard it'll improve their combat performance significantly, or the +1LD banner makes them near unbreakable. Also I prefer to have my combat units in ranks of 7x3 to maximize damage output, this is what I think DE are good at and you break your opponents steadfast by quite simply murdering them before they can hit you. I'd be curious to see what others think about this though, but I've never found 5x4 to be all that great. This is excellent feedback, and I couldn't have put it better myself. For 20mm base models if your unit is about killing you definitely want 7 wide (or a horde but you don't have the unit sizes for that) to maximise models in base contact against the most common unit widths. If it's a defensive unit (Bleakswords, Dreadspears, possibly Sisters of Slaughter) that's when you go for 5 wide to minimise enemy models in base contact and maximise your ranks. Similar principle for 25mm bases except you want 6 wide for the offensive units.
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Post by tileag on Aug 19, 2020 18:25:17 GMT
Looks like ill be making some changes, put the black guard and executioners in 7 wide 3 deep ranks
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Post by knoffles on Aug 21, 2020 2:38:52 GMT
First off, welcome to the greatest faction in Warhammer!!! Don’t be suckered in by the false propaganda being thrown around. The only good Delf is a dead delf 😁. delflover5000 has covered all the bases. Dark riders are worth their weight in gold!
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Post by tileag on Aug 22, 2020 21:04:20 GMT
Another quick question, war hydras....are the handlers just for show (i dont see any stats for them)?
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Post by sedge on Aug 22, 2020 21:34:20 GMT
Another quick question, war hydras....are the handlers just for show (i dont see any stats for them)? Yeah, sadly they're just for show in the 8th book. They used to get some useful attacks in the previous book.
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Post by TheRealGIB on Aug 22, 2020 22:04:14 GMT
I have always been a fan of smaller units of darkshards, like splitting the 20 man unit into separate 10 man units. I think it gives you better adaptability to small warmachine hunter units, and can also allow you to charge block or redirect for your more powerful, expensive blocks. You will go up a drop for deployment, but If I counted right you are already at 9, which means you are already past the point that against most lists you will not be getting any +1's for first turn. I also think that dropping the cold one chariot and adding a few bodies to both the Exo's and the black guard would be a good idea, as those plus the hydras will be doing most of the heavy lifting, and consequently the dying, for your list.
Have you played other elf factions before? I found the learning curve to be pretty high when I first moved away into these elite T3 low armor armies, but they are also amazingly rewarding to play when you finally get it. Let us know how your games go when you get it all together!
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Post by tileag on Aug 22, 2020 23:02:39 GMT
I have always been a fan of smaller units of darkshards, like splitting the 20 man unit into separate 10 man units. I think it gives you better adaptability to small warmachine hunter units, and can also allow you to charge block or redirect for your more powerful, expensive blocks. You will go up a drop for deployment, but If I counted right you are already at 9, which means you are already past the point that against most lists you will not be getting any +1's for first turn. I also think that dropping the cold one chariot and adding a few bodies to both the Exo's and the black guard would be a good idea, as those plus the hydras will be doing most of the heavy lifting, and consequently the dying, for your list. Have you played other elf factions before? I found the learning curve to be pretty high when I first moved away into these elite T3 low armor armies, but they are also amazingly rewarding to play when you finally get it. Let us know how your games go when you get it all together! Thanks for the advice. Yea i keep changing my mind on the darkshard unit (split into 2 or keep as 1) on one hand your right i get 2 units, on the other hand i have a unit of 20 strong basically bleakswords who can fire a bunch of shots. Ive never played elves only against them. Will let everyone know how the games go, i am anticipating being done by end of September
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Post by mottdon on Aug 23, 2020 11:55:52 GMT
Where are you planning on placing your Lv4? If you're thinking she's gonna go into the Darkshard unit, then I'd definitely split them up into two units. That'd give her a screen incase something gets through, or a unit she can move into, if the one she's in starts getting too depleted. Smaller, multiple units are usually a good idea in 8th, unless you're giving them a magic banner or are tight on points and don't want to spend for multiple commands.
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Post by tileag on Aug 23, 2020 17:14:33 GMT
Where are you planning on placing your Lv4? If you're thinking she's gonna go into the Darkshard unit, then I'd definitely split them up into two units. That'd give her a screen incase something gets through, or a unit she can move into, if the one she's in starts getting too depleted. Smaller, multiple units are usually a good idea in 8th, unless you're giving them a magic banner or are tight on points and don't want to spend for multiple commands. Thats a good point, i think ill be be splitting them up into 2 units. Also thinking of dropping for warlocks for something else, can i get away with 1 caster in this type of army?
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Post by sedge on Aug 23, 2020 18:32:38 GMT
The conventional wisdom is that you need a Lvl 4 + a Lvl 1/2, one of which is bearing a Dispel Scroll, to be competitive.
That might be the strongest way to build an army, most the time, but it's far from the only way to play. And Dark Elves as one of the stronger armies, can cope better without the usual pairing of casters.
However, Doomfire Warlocks are such a strong unit, I can't see what you can replace them with that'll make your army stronger.
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Post by mottdon on Aug 24, 2020 0:11:09 GMT
Yeah, I'd keep the Warlocks. They're really good. Besides, a secondary Doombolt is ace. Not to mention that there aren't many units that come with a built-in 4++
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Post by mottdon on Aug 24, 2020 11:18:09 GMT
I'd say, if you're wanting to shave off some points in order to add more bodies to your elites, then I might consider removing one of the War Hydras. That'd give you 180 points to play with, but then you have to ask yourself, "What did I gain by doing that?" Might be worth it, might not. Depends on how you're thinking on playing them and what benefits they'll bring you. Seems as though internet consensus is that the more Executioners you have the better. Sedge can speak more to that though.
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