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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Dec 1, 2020 20:27:16 GMT
Hi Guys.
While planning out an upcoming Tomb Kings fight against WoC, I was looking at various options of tarpitting a CW unit and then charging it from the side with Tomb Guard or something and then the thought occurred to me that I didn't quite know what happens with TWO Unstable units in one combat.
If their side loses the combat, do they both take the combat difference additional wounds? (!?!?!?!)
Just seems really unfair for them both to have to do that, let alone killing my tactic of ganging up on his ridiculously overpowered units.
Cheers!
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Dec 1, 2020 21:00:20 GMT
As a frequent Tomb Kings player, all I can say is:
THIS SUCKS, and AVOID IT
Example:
--My Necro Knights (unit of 3) were fighting a unit of 15 Khorne Warriors.
--It was a bit of a standstill, the Khorne dudes killed 1 Necro, then… stall.
--I wasn’t rolling enough to kill lots of Warriors off, nor he.
I had a unit of skeletons that was positioned perfectly for a flank charge. So, they did. But, Khorne guys get 3 (maybe 4) attacks each on skeletons. 3+ to hit, 2+ to wound. They rolled great. Skulls for the Skull god and all that.
Yes, I got a +1 for Flank and +1 for charge… But the WoC-Kh killed 5 or 6 skeletons. Ouch. That was enough to crumble away the last of my Necro Knights. The Khorne Warriors didn’t do any damage do the Necro Knights, mind you. Not even 1 Wound that round. They piled as many attacks as possible onto the weak skeletons and ran up the combat resolution total.
Doing so has the effect of dealing “Virtual Wounds” to ANY and ALL other units in that same combat. Those blocks of skeletons are a huge liability in a multi-unit combat. Avoid embarrassing scenarios like the above.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Dec 1, 2020 21:02:47 GMT
RAW: Take the combined combat result. If Tomb Kings side loses, that negative number is the amount of crumble damage dealt to ALL Tomb Kings units involved in that combat.
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Dec 1, 2020 22:43:57 GMT
RAW: Take the combined combat result. If Tomb Kings side loses, that negative number is the amount of crumble damage dealt to ALL Tomb Kings units involved in that combat. Wow... That example is truly frightening, especially considering the main advantage for an army such as Tomb Kings is outnumbering the foe. What's the fudging point if you can't gang up!?!?! But where does it say this in the BRB that it would apply to both? Maybe because it's considered one combat I just have to allocate the wounds to one of the units? |
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Post by Naitsabes on Dec 2, 2020 0:37:37 GMT
there is only one combat result per combat, no matter how many units are involved. and that difference is what you take as wounds on each unit.
Undead are not alone. For regular folks, who have to take a break test, each unit has to take their test with the same, potentially utterly crippling modifier. So, in that scenario wilsonthenarc describes, you would also shoot yourself in the foot if you sent say a unit of state troops into the flank of those khorne warriors already engaged to brave Empire Knights.
Facing Khorne warriors?!? Best kill them with fire. From afar.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Dec 2, 2020 9:54:30 GMT
BRB p. 59: "Combat resolution works slightly differently in a multiple close combat. All the casualties inflicted by both sides (including overkill bonuses) count towards the result as normal, but most other modifiers have limitations."
BRB p. 60: "When the winning side has been determined in a multiple combat, you need to take a separate Break test for every unit on the losing side, using the difference in the two combat result scores as normal."
BRB p. 78: "Unstable units that lose a combat suffer one extra Wound for every point by which they lose the combat, with no saves of any kind permitted against these wounds."
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Dec 2, 2020 14:05:16 GMT
BRB p. 59: "Combat resolution works slightly differently in a multiple close combat. All the casualties inflicted by both sides (including overkill bonuses) count towards the result as normal, but most other modifiers have limitations." BRB p. 60: "When the winning side has been determined in a multiple combat, you need to take a separate Break test for every unit on the losing side, using the difference in the two combat result scores as normal." BRB p. 78: "Unstable units that lose a combat suffer one extra Wound for every point by which they lose the combat, with no saves of any kind permitted against these wounds." Okay great, some good stable data here. Makes a large difference to tactics that I was going to use! I was thinking that I'd make a couple of huge tarpit, cheapo skeletons and thus keep my opponents WoC units in place to be able to charge them from the side with chariots or Tomb Guard. I guess I can still do that with the chariots and thus guarantee my impact hits... |
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Post by vulcan on Dec 2, 2020 20:41:58 GMT
Yeah, WOC can get on the silly side of ridiculous. Surrounding them just gives them the chance to inflict more casualties and break more units at once. Tarpit all you like, just don't throw in the flankers until AFTER the tarpit has broken or been destroyed.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Dec 2, 2020 22:01:21 GMT
As Naitsabes said: kill them with fire from afar. Or adhering to the more general principle of Noght: shoot the fighty stuff, and fight the shooty stuff. |
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Post by Horace on Dec 2, 2020 23:15:30 GMT
It's the same with Vampires. Never put anything into a combat where Zombies are fighting. EVER
Those tarpits are just there to die, as slowly as possible
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