So I just played a 2k point game against my boy, and had to have experienced optimal output from my unit of Flagellants...I gotta say...I felt so bad for him. I hit his unit of 14 Chaos Warriors (MoK) with my 40 man horde, while they had Birona's Time Warp AND Martyred 4 of their brethren.
I had 8 in base contact, so 24 (+1A from BTW) + 8 + 8 (from Horde)...their special rules from the "sacrifice" gave them rerolls for hits and wounds on top of it....PLUS ASF (from the spell again). 40 Attacks, 31 Hit, 28 Wound, he saves 6...but it doesnt matter, the unit is wiped. I have another game coming up with a friend of mine with this list, and if there is a similar result, will most certainly apologize for the cheese and pack the Flaggies up to cool off for a bit. Is that normal or was I just lucky to get the stars to align?
What are some other incredible combos you can get out of the Empire? I am familiar with the STank and Lore of Life, are there any others?
There is a lot of units that gets insane by magic buffs. Say hello to okkams mindrazor on any crappy standard elf, suddenly glade guard can handle big monsters easy. High WS and ASF just crushes but for instance a horde of witches with okkams, oh la la, what goes toe to toe with that?
So if in combat you need to focus on dispelling that super Aug spell and let more or less everything else fly.
Not empire though as I have less experience against and with them yet.
yes, flagellants are hardly a powergamers choice. A horde of pretty much anything will do bad things with the right spells on them. maybe not overkill by that much but still. run the numbers for halberdiers for example. Also, if you go first, khorne warriors are almost always in a bad place, they are surprisingly fragile.
khorne warriors are maybe 18pts. so that unit with command was 282. your flagellants are what? something north of 400. AND you got a good spell off. you applied overwhelming force and wiped the guys. that's how it's supposed to work.
access to buffs is where Empire shines. all the basic lores, priests, wagons. if you can get that to stack at the right moment you can go toe to toe with almost everything.
flagellants are low leadership and frenzy. that is just asking for trouble. I think you are playing it nice bringing a horde instead of knights and Stanks and war machines. your opponents just need to figure out how to lead the flaggies to their doom (it's where they want to go anyway). might take them a couple tries.
We had an army of flagellants in our campaign, and they did not do well at all. The big difference is no-one ever bothered to put a powergame head on and look for spell combos etc. Thematically they favoured priests (with weak prayer-spells) and only had wizards with them when acting as part of an alliance force.
Recently I saw what Birona's can do, combined with various neat tricks, when our clued up player showed us. It made me wonder if I have ever really been fully playing WFB!
So I just had another scrap with them, and while it wasnt optimal, they did great. They hit a 50 man unit of Queeks Storm Vermin (with Queek...naturally). I got BTW on them the next phase, and they went toe to toe, without any Martyrs while they were S5 (unfortunately), and again did great.
The Unbreakable is also Ace.
I enjoy them, but it's a LOT of points to sink into a unit...
I do like smaller Flagellent units but you have to be ready to swallow the points. It's an "all in" strategy. Hit 'em hard n' fast and let your Special/Rare units mop up.
This was used a lot back in 7th, when Flagellents could be taken as core if your general was an Arch Lector or Warrior Priest. THAT was a hard-hitting army. Pair that with two Stanks, people hated you. It was really an over powered mechanic, though, and I'm glad they abolished it. Can you imagine packing Flagellents as core, Arch Lector on War Altar with a Life Wizard raising back any "sacrificed" , UNBREAKABLE Flagellents, BSB on Pegasus with Demigryphs, Canons, Stanks, and HBVGs to round out the rest of the army? That'd be a top tier army. Broken really.
But as we have it right now, a fun mechanic to take, is a Light Council build. Heavily reliant on magic to win, but still really cool. I've talked in detail about it in the Empire strategy section on the forum.
Really, Empire is the "jack-of-all-trades" army for WFB. A little bit of everything, master on none. But if you build your army with a specific theme in mind, they can be really strong in just about any category. That's why they're my favorite army. I can have a completely different game every time I play them. One of the most fun games I played was against Brets. I took a cav heavy list, led by a General on Griffon and he took a typical Bret list, led by King Louie. It was a VERY close game, but in the end he won due to King Louie HKB-ing my Stank early on in the match. I also only took one canon and he had 5 Peg Knight's that caused havok in my backfield. But overall, I'd say my Knight's, Demi's, and General on Griffon performed better. Super-fun game that came right down to the last few rolls.
In short, you can go heavy in one aspect and either have crushing wins, or crushing losses, OR you can go generic and have a little bit of everything and do...average. Usually you see the average lists on batreps because they want close games for their videos. Too many "You don't have a clue", or "You cheated" comments otherwise. So not much help there. (That's considering if the YouTuber even is a good player and knows the Empire well!) I think you're doing the right thing and trying different units and combo out though! That's really the only way to learn! People can tell you all day what to take/what not, but with the right combinations, you can make anything work! You just saw that with the Flagellents. Try a unit of 50 Spearmen with a WP, backed by Hurricanum, and Grey Wizard. Same result, even though most netlisters would say Spearmen are crap. It's all about the combos.
mottdon I really love the Empire for all of the same reasons...it's a blast, and able to take on whatever is thrown at it. But like you said, commit too far to one style (rock), and you may end up fighting against paper instead of scissors.
I cannot imagine an army where I could take Flaggies as a core choice...that would absolutely be out of control ! I have heard of the Light Council, and may be giving that a try soon as well, but I think my next battler with the Empire may be with a named character in order to have some fluffy fun. I have Balthasar, Wulfhart, Luthor Huss, and Volkmar, so ill have to play around and see!
And as for the juiced up spearmen, the thought has crossed my mind. A horde of 40 with a WP would be Hatred 40 attacks...and that's with no prayers, spells, or wagons near by!
Yeah, try out all the heroes. See what they can do. Balthesar is great fun. Nice not having to bank on lore spell rolls, hoping to get the right combo, he's basically a lv5 caster (NOT when dispelling though) and has great movement! Author Huss is just the man.
Spearmen with a WP are good, but usually need that bit extra push to make them REAL useful. Balthesar can really help with that though.
My armies: Empire, Dwarfs, High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Skaven, Tomb Kings, Ogre Kingdoms, Orcs and Goblins, and Skitarii (40K).