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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 9, 2021 12:33:38 GMT
Thanks. For the record, it was my own wizard who initially cast the spell (Purple Sun). This situation arose from a subsequent turn when the spell moved randomly. Last time I'm casting this. Always ends up on me instead of the enemy Remember, however, that the Wizard can choose to end a RiP spell "at any time."
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Post by strutsagget on Sept 9, 2021 13:48:03 GMT
Not vortexes though:
”Spells marked ‘remains in play’ stay in effect indefinitely when cast. They only come to an end when the target is slain, or else the caster is slain, chooses to end the spell (which he can do at any time, except for magical vortexes, which he can only choose to end at the start of a phase)”
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 9, 2021 14:02:25 GMT
Quite so. That was corrected in an Erratum I had forgotten about.
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Post by johngg on Sept 19, 2021 19:20:15 GMT
johngg : By that logic, a missile unit did not cause the damage either, the effects of the missile did. Except that the rules state differently. Ah ha! I see the pedants are revolting! Well no, and we've gone over this. You'd either flee from the vortex, or from the nearest enemy. We wouldn't after all flee from the arrows in your back. Fleeing from the wizard, absurd as that sounds is even more incomprehensible if the wizard were to fall foul of a particularly damaging miscast. what if the wizard were to die? No, best leave the poor wizard out of the calculation all together. And... I fully agree and no where is the wizard mentioned [nor the arrows!] Well no, as I mentioned before... To which you actually agreed... and here! So I'm really not following your continuation. In short, and again as has already been stated and I believe we are in fact both agreeing [except for the arrows] You believe the vortex is a 'thing' and therefore flee from that, or you don not and you flee from the nearest enemy unit.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 22, 2021 22:14:25 GMT
I should not have thought my position would be too difficult to grasp. But back to basics: unless specifically stated otherwise, normal rules apply. What are the normal rules (to quote them again)? BRB p. 62: - HEAVY CASUALTIES
A unit must take a Panic test immediately if it loses 25% or more of the models with which it started the phase. This test will most commonly be taken as a result of shooting attacks or damage caused by enemy spells, but can also be triggered by other factors that cause casualties, such as miscasts, misfires, Dangerous Terrain tests or other special rules. Rather than having a series of very specific triggers for a Panic test, we use this as a 'catch-all' to cover units that suffer high casualties for any reason.
Note: the most common case is from shooting attacks or spells. Yes, it does not mention Wizards, just like it does not mention missile units either. There is a perfect parallel between the two. Missile units use missile weapons to inflict damage, damage which is determined by the specification of the missile weapon; Wizards use spells to inflict damage, damage which is determined by the specification of the spells. BRB p. 63: - DIRECTION OF FLIGHT
If a unit fails a Panic test: * Brought about by heavy casualties. Pivot the unit on the spot (ignoring other units) so that it is fleeing directly away from the unit/terrain that caused the most casualties in that phase — it then flees as described on page 25.
So, there is no provision here whatsoever for fleeing from the nearest enemy unit. That is preserved for Panic tests brought about by any other reason – any reason other than Heavy Casualties. The unit that fails its Panic test flees away from the unit/terrain that caused the most casualties in that phase: missile units for shooting attacks, Wizards (they are units too, either lone or combined) for spells. More specifically: if a war machine like a stone thrower is fired, a template is used, and any enemy unit that will have failed a Panic test because of Heavy Casualties, will flee from the war machine, not the nearest enemy unit. If a Wizard casts a vortex spell, a template is used, and any enemy unit that will have failed a Panic test because of Heavy Casualties will flee from the Wizard, not the nearest enemy unit. So, RAW, you always flee away form the Wizard that cast the spell – unless, of course, you just cannot flee away from him, because the Wizard is actually part of your unit, as potentially in the case of a Miscast. That said, RiP spells deviate, because, contrary to war machine templates, they keep on giving. Since it has not been specified otherwise, RAW it matters not: with the exception of the Comet, these spells are still controlled by the Wizard that cast them, and units failing their Panic test for Heavy Casualties flee away from the Wizard. Nevertheless, it does feel a bit odd, and, on a purely personal basis, I would agree with my opponent to have units flee form the vortex template, rather than the Wizard. And in the case of the Comet, I would prefer to flee away from the markers, rather than the nearest enemy unit - although, depending on the impact of the Comet, it might be fun to watch units fleeing in fear of other fleeing units.
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