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Post by gregwarhamsters on Oct 4, 2021 21:41:56 GMT
Hi,
I know... 8th has been around a while and we should know all the answers but people seem to twist their understanding of a rule(s)
Now, there are a few spells that restrict a units movement or can cause them to take dangerous terrain tests.
Now as the rules were intended I believe this should cover every unit type, now there may be exceptions but I'm looking at mundane foot or mounted troops.
Rules as written and this is where the problem occures, foot troops to my knowledge never have to take a dangerous terrain test SO even if a spell is cast on them that causes them to fail the test on a 1-2 rather than a 1 it'll never happen as they don't take a test.
A lot of this is talked about as open ground counts as difficult therefore cavalry would test, but still infantry would not.
How you you play this scenario?
Cheers
Greg
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Post by thegoat on Oct 4, 2021 22:20:18 GMT
Please provide the actual spell(s) that you are asking about.
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Post by 1plussave on Oct 5, 2021 0:32:45 GMT
You might be misinterpreting the rules; When you are subject to Dangerous Terrain you take a Dangerous Terrain Test. Cavalry and most mounted type units and Chariot treat all terrain that isn't Open Ground as Dangerous.
Infantry only treats Marshes and specific terrain as Dangerous by default, but if something says they are now subject to Dangerous Terrain they take the test as normal. There is nowhere that says Infantry don't take Dangerous Terrain Tests, its just that Cavalry treats MORE terrain as Dangerous.
In the example of Curse of Anrheir for example; ALL Terrain is now Dangerous Terrain, By a strict reading of the rules this includes Open Ground. So any unit affected that makes a move that is a March, Charge, Flee or Pursue triggers Dangerous Terrain Tests.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 5, 2021 7:48:26 GMT
What 1plussave says. The rules distinguish between "model" ( i.e. any troop type) and specific troop types like cavalry. BRB p. 117: "When a model marches, charges, flees, overruns or pursues into or through an area of dangerous terrain, it is called upon to take a Dangerous Terrain test[...] As such, cavalry, monstrous cavalry and chariots treat all terrain other than open ground as being dangerous terrain, as described above." Compare BRB p. 118 (Scree Slope): "Models charging, marching, fleeing, pursuing or overrunning up, down or through a scree slope must take a Dangerous Terrain test." BRB p. 119 (Forest and Movement): "If a cavalry, monstrous cavalry or chariot model marches, charges, overruns, flees or pursues through a forest, it must take a Dangerous Terrain test (page 117). Models with the Flyer special rule that begin or end a flying move in a forest must take a Dangerous Terrain test." etc.
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Oct 25, 2021 14:13:14 GMT
Please provide the actual spell(s) that you are asking about. You might be misinterpreting the rules; When you are subject to Dangerous Terrain you take a Dangerous Terrain Test. Cavalry and most mounted type units and Chariot treat all terrain that isn't Open Ground as Dangerous. Infantry only treats Marshes and specific terrain as Dangerous by default, but if something says they are now subject to Dangerous Terrain they take the test as normal. There is nowhere that says Infantry don't take Dangerous Terrain Tests, its just that Cavalry treats MORE terrain as Dangerous. In the example of Curse of Anrheir for example; ALL Terrain is now Dangerous Terrain, By a strict reading of the rules this includes Open Ground. So any unit affected that makes a move that is a March, Charge, Flee or Pursue triggers Dangerous Terrain Tests. What 1plussave says. The rules distinguish between "model" ( i.e. any troop type) and specific troop types like cavalry. BRB p. 117: "When a model marches, charges, flees, overruns or pursues into or through an area of dangerous terrain, it is called upon to take a Dangerous Terrain test[...] As such, cavalry, monstrous cavalry and chariots treat all terrain other than open ground as being dangerous terrain, as described above." Compare BRB p. 118 (Scree Slope): "Models charging, marching, fleeing, pursuing or overrunning up, down or through a scree slope must take a Dangerous Terrain test." BRB p. 119 (Forest and Movement): "If a cavalry, monstrous cavalry or chariot model marches, charges, overruns, flees or pursues through a forest, it must take a Dangerous Terrain test (page 117). Models with the Flyer special rule that begin or end a flying move in a forest must take a Dangerous Terrain test." etc. The curse of Anraheir and Usirians incantation of vengance spring to mind. I'm happy that the spell makes all units take a dangerious terrain test - including units that normally don't seem to - infantry being the main one. I can't think of a game where I saw a marsh but I get what you're saying of course. Maybe just my opponent and to be fair I get what he's saying, why would he take a dangerious terrain test on a 1-2 when in fact he wouldn't be taking it on a 1 in the first instance. All good, thanks Greg
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Post by thegoat on Oct 25, 2021 14:48:24 GMT
Please provide the actual spell(s) that you are asking about. The curse of Anraheir and Usirians incantation of vengance spring to mind. Yup, as others have said above, both those spells cause all units to take dangerous terrain tests. Including infantry.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 25, 2021 15:50:25 GMT
I'm happy that the spell makes all units take a dangerious terrain test - including units that normally don't seem to - infantry being the main one. I can't think of a game where I saw a marsh but I get what you're saying of course. Maybe just my opponent and to be fair I get what he's saying, why would he take a dangerious terrain test on a 1-2 when in fact he wouldn't be taking it on a 1 in the first instance. All good, thanks Greg To clarify for your opponent then: infantry, as such, is not exempted for DT tests, nor from failing a DT test on a 1 or 2. Units of all troop types (including infantry) can be required to take a DT test - it is just that some troop types, like cavalry and chariots, treat more types of terrain as DT. Likewise, some types of terrain may require certain troop types to fail their DT test on a 1 or 2, not just 1. It all depends on the description of the type of terrain, and any stated exemption a unit may have (like the Strider special rule). Unless specifically stated otherwise, normal rules apply. In the case of the Curse of Anraheir, units of all troop types treat "all terrain (other than impassable terrain) as dangerous terrain and will fail Dangerous Terrain tests on a 1 or 2, rather than a 1" (BRB p. 493). That includes open ground as terrain type, and infantry as troop type - unless, of course, the latter would have a specific exemption regarding DT. It is true that infantry normally does not take a DT test for open ground (or forests or whatnot), and it is also true that units normally fail a DT test on just a 1 - but the spell description specifically states otherwise. Hence, the normal rules do not apply.
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Post by vulcan on Oct 26, 2021 13:43:24 GMT
I always thought Curse of Anraheir was very strangely worded.
If it's supposed to affect clear terrain as well as all other forms of terrain, then just say "If the unit moves it takes dangerous terrain tests regardless of unit or terrain type". Makes the spell 100% clear.
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Post by DiscoQing on Oct 26, 2021 15:29:17 GMT
Should use my spell cards instead 😜
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 26, 2021 15:51:24 GMT
I always thought Curse of Anraheir was very strangely worded. If it's supposed to affect clear terrain as well as all other forms of terrain, then just say "If the unit moves it takes dangerous terrain tests regardless of unit or terrain type". Makes the spell 100% clear. To me, "the unit treats all terrain (other than impassable terrain) as dangerous terrain and will fail Dangerous Terrain tests on a 1 or 2, rather than a 1" seems clear enough. "All terrain (other than impassable terrain)" means "all terrain (other than impassable terrain)," and adding the unit type is rather superfluous - although GW has been known to state the obvious on occasion. As it happens, your version would mean that a unit would need to take DT tests whenever it moves, not just when it marches, charges, flees, overruns or pursues, and impassable terrain would become dangerous terrain too, and thus become passable.
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Post by strutsagget on Oct 30, 2021 18:23:45 GMT
Just to clarify
Infantry does not take the test if just moving a normal move in dangerous terrain.
So when hit by aug spell curse of anahir can still move without taking the test.
”DANGEROUS TERRAIN Some areas of terrain are incredibly treacherous and present a very real risk to life and limb. When a model marches, charges, flees, overruns or pursues into or through an area of dangerous terrain, it is called upon to take a Dangerous Terrain test – roll a D6. On a 2-6, the model successfully negotiates the dangers of the terrain and reaches its destination safe and sound. If a 1 is rolled, however, the model has suffered a terrible mishap and suffers a wound with no armour saves allowed.”
CoA
”The Curse of Anraheir is a hex with a range of 36". The target unit suffers a -1 penalty to its To Hit rolls (to both its shooting and close combat attacks) until the start of the caster’s next Magic phase. In addition, the unit treats all terrain (other than impassable terrain) as dangerous terrain and will fail Dangerous Terrain tests on a 1 or 2, rather than a 1. The Wizard can choose to extend the range of this spell to 72". If he does so, the casting value is increased to 13+.”
Utdrag från WARHAMMER RULEBOOK
So CoA turns open ground into dangerous. If you run an infantry unit you just make normal move and don’t take a test.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 30, 2021 20:53:35 GMT
That is certainly true, but not limited to infantry: no troop type has to test for DT, if it makes a normal move.
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Nov 2, 2021 18:37:33 GMT
I always thought Curse of Anraheir was very strangely worded. Thing is I can see what my opponent is saying and therefore I could argue devils advocate and speak on both sides - as usual though it usuallypeople wanting to gain an advantage - if it's my opponent and merely me wishing to get it right if it's me
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