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Post by jamesacon on Dec 19, 2021 8:48:12 GMT
Hi all,
I read somewhere here on a tactics page about casting multiple signature spells per turn. In the example given it was miasma from lore of shadows.
I was under the impression you could only cast a spell once per turn and the only benefit to signature spells was that multiple wizards can know them.
I may just be confusing what I read, so I thought I would ask to confirm.
Thanks
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Post by padre on Dec 19, 2021 11:03:42 GMT
No books nearby but vampire counts magic users can all cast invocation of nehek once each.
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Post by Crazy_Dokta on Dec 19, 2021 11:23:32 GMT
Each wizard can only attempt to cast each spell once per turn (Rulebook, p.31).
So, if you have 2 mages with identical spells (signature/2 Greyseers with Dread13th/etc) each of them may cast this spell once. Also effects of identical spells are stacks (in FAQ, but I don't remember)
(Tell me if I'm wrong)
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Dec 19, 2021 12:46:10 GMT
What @crazy_Dokta says.
BRB p. 31: "Note that bonuses and penalties from Hex, Augment and other spells are cumulative, but normally cannot take any characteristics above 10 or below 1."
Be aware that this does not include identical special rules, which do not stack - unless specifically stated otherwise, of course.
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Post by jamesacon on Dec 19, 2021 19:13:57 GMT
Oh wow! I have been doing things wrong for a while! But to be fair I usually only run one wizard or against 1 - 2 wizards who usually know different spells.
So just to clarify, say I have two bray shamans that know wissims wildform. I can cast this spell from each shaman onto two different units? Because casting on the same unit would not stack?
Thanks guys, now I see the merit of multiple casters of the same lore.
Also say if the first attempt is dispelled, can I attempt to cast it again with the other shaman?
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Post by thegoat on Dec 19, 2021 19:36:15 GMT
So just to clarify, say I have two bray shamans that know wissims wildform. I can cast this spell from each shaman onto two different units? Yes Because casting on the same unit would not stack? Correct. Also say if the first attempt is dispelled, can I attempt to cast it again with the other shaman? Also correct.
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Post by Crazy_Dokta on Dec 19, 2021 20:21:54 GMT
On two different inits/on the same unit twice. As you wish. Spell effects are cumulative ("to a maximum of 10 (augment)/to a minimum of 1(hex)". Exception - for example Skaven's "Wither" spell - bla-bla-bla, reduce T by 1, if reduced to 0 - remove them as casualty. Cos skaven are sneaky gits and can afford it )
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Dec 19, 2021 21:51:39 GMT
What @crazy_Dokta says. BRB p. 37 "Remember that, unless specified otherwise, each Wizard can cast each spell only once per turn" [ Italics mine] BRB p. 490: "After choosing replacements for duplicate spells, a Wizard can always choose to substitute one of the spells he rolls with the signature spell of a lore — even if another Wizard in the same army already knows the signature spell." And as quoted before: BRB p. 31: "Note that bonuses and penalties from Hex, Augment and other spells are cumulative, but normally cannot take any characteristics above 10 or below 1." Be aware that this does not include identical special rules, which do not stack - unless specifically stated otherwise, of course. Since all your Wizards are allowed to have the signature spell, each of them is allowed to cast it once per turn, and the effects will be cumulative, although they cannot take any characteristics above 10 or below 1 - unless specifically stated otherwise. Casting Wyssan's Wildform multiple times on the same unit will have a cumulative effect, but since it does not state otherwise, it will not take any characteristic above 10. Note that this factors in all other sources of bonuses, with the exception of random characteristics.
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Post by thegoat on Dec 19, 2021 22:24:30 GMT
I thought for sure it was FAQed that the same Augment/Hex spell can't stack with itself. But I can't find that exact ruling.
Though I found this in the FAQ for WFB 8ed:
Page 66 – Special Rules, What Special Rules Does It Have Change “[...]the effects of multiple special rules[...]” to “[...]the effects of different special rules[...]”Add “However, unless otherwise stated, a model gains no additional benefit from having the same special rule multiple times.” to the end of the first paragraph. Maybe that is what I was remembering, as it is similar. But unfortunately it doesn't directly address the question at hand.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Dec 19, 2021 22:33:22 GMT
There is no such ruling. The BRB specifically states that the effects of Hexes and Augments and other spells stack. The Erratum regarding special rules was needed to clarify that the same special rule does not stack (as I pointed out), but that different special rules (with the same effect) will stack - unless, of course, specifically stated otherwise.
BRB p. 66 (original): "Unless otherwise noted, the effects of multiple special rules are cumulative."
BRB p. 66 (updated): "Unless otherwise noted, the effects of different special rules are cumulative. However, unless otherwise stated, a model gains no additional benefit from having the same special rule multiple times.”
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Dec 19, 2021 22:46:47 GMT
On a side note: just like with @discoqing it seems impossible for me to tag @crazy_Dokta.
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Post by DiscoQing on Dec 20, 2021 0:35:14 GMT
On a side note: just like with @discoqing it seems impossible for me to tag @crazy_Dokta. Hehe, to tag me to use a K instead of a Q 😍 DiscoQingAnd for Crazy_D use: crazydokta758 Crazy_Dokta
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Dec 21, 2021 16:36:01 GMT
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Post by strutsagget on Jan 7, 2022 8:36:55 GMT
On a side note: just like with @discoqing it seems impossible for me to tag @crazy_Dokta. Hehe, to tag me to use a K instead of a Q 😍 DiscoQingAnd for Crazy_D use: crazydokta758 Crazy_DoktaThis is because of the tapatalk (app) and the forum names are different. In one place you use K and in one place Q. One of those weird interactions between integration of multiple platforms. Not sure you can @ in the webpage but you can reply to posts and that will notify the author. I the app you can @ the tapatalk name.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jan 7, 2022 8:40:54 GMT
Interesting. Thanks.
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