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Post by mcnuggs on Nov 3, 2022 16:02:39 GMT
Forefathers of the Waaagh, I call upon your knowledge to better understand the use of the Biggest Boyz. Aside from the access to GW and the versatility that Armed to Da Teef provides, what are the benefits of Black Orcs in 8th Edition? How do they stand up to/compliment units such as Savage Orc Big 'Uns? I adore their models and like my Orcs to be true elite units, and with one unit of Big Un's already, taking Black Orcs would be my only access to WS4 and S4. I feel the role of expendable troop is better served by Night Goblins than by regular Boyz. What size do people typically run? Do characters get added in? What is the consensus on Grimgor (besides overly expensive?)
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Post by sedge on Nov 3, 2022 17:44:42 GMT
In short, Night Goblins with netters are typically considered the optimal large blob unit to tarpit an opponent, Savage Orc Big 'Uns are considered the most effective all-round damage-dealing infantry unit with their mass of S5/S4 attacks, while Black Orcs are a strong choice against high toughness/heavily armoured units due to hitting at S7/S6.
Black Orcs are slightly more reliable than other greenskin units, as you don't have animosity, and have Immune to Psychology. That also means they're less dependent on characters than other greenskin units. Their cost is reasonable, but they are best taken in larger units as a 5+ save only goes so far. Shields are optional - maybe sensible if facing lots of shooting, but you shouldn't be using them in combat.
If your army includes a unit each of Night Goblins with netters, Savage Orc Big 'Uns, and Black Orcs, you've got a strong set of infantry.
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Post by baaderthegreat on Nov 3, 2022 18:16:39 GMT
In short, Night Goblins with netters are typically considered the optimal large blob unit to tarpit an opponent, Savage Orc Big 'Uns are considered the most effective all-round damage-dealing infantry unit with their mass of S5/S4 attacks, while Black Orcs are a strong choice against high toughness/heavily armoured units due to hitting at S7/S6. Black Orcs are slightly more reliable than other greenskin units, as you don't have animosity, and have Immune to Psychology. That also means they're less dependent on characters than other greenskin units. Their cost is reasonable, but they are best taken in larger units as a 5+ save only goes so far. Shields are optional - maybe sensible if facing lots of shooting, but you shouldn't be using them in combat. If your army includes a unit each of Night Goblins with netters, Savage Orc Big 'Uns, and Black Orcs, you've got a strong set of infantry.
Against some opponents, I don't use the Savage Orcs that much because some players are pretty good in taking advantage of the savages' frenzy rule (= the "must overrun" part sometimes gets me in real trouble). In comparison, this makes Black Orcs even more reliable.
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Post by tileag on Nov 3, 2022 18:49:35 GMT
OK its been a while since I played orcs and goblins, I did take them in several leagues I played back in the day though.
Black Orcs are from my memory overpriced and I almost never took them in a competitive environment from what I recall. Pairing them with Grimgor is better but its a real expensive unit.
I always thought they should of had plate mail (4+) for their cost.
All that being said, besides being a pain to rank up, they are a really nice looking unit and you should absolutely take it if you like them. I never took them in competitive environments, but almost always in more relaxed games.
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Post by mcnuggs on Nov 3, 2022 19:43:59 GMT
Thanks for the quick replies. In my escalation from 2000 -> 2400 points, I have enough points for 30 black orcs with a magic banner and like a 5 point magic item on a hero. What size would you advise running a block of that size? 6x5? 10x3? Should I invest in a character with that block and make it smaller?
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Post by mcnuggs on Nov 3, 2022 19:44:27 GMT
Thanks for the quick replies. In my escalation from 2000 -> 2400 points, I have enough points for 30 black orcs with a magic banner and like a 5 point magic item on a hero. What size would you advise running a block of that size? 6x5? 10x3? Should I invest in a character with that block and make it smaller? The reason 30 works out as well is because they are sold in packs of 15, and that's just economics
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Post by grandmasterwang on Nov 4, 2022 10:04:21 GMT
Thanks for the quick replies. In my escalation from 2000 -> 2400 points, I have enough points for 30 black orcs with a magic banner and like a 5 point magic item on a hero. What size would you advise running a block of that size? 6x5? 10x3? Should I invest in a character with that block and make it smaller? 6 x 5 works well. Horde of 30 will likely be whittled so the horde benefit will be wasted. Banner of Swiftness can be a cheeky surprise. Strength 7 with GW on the charge can do some real damage. Bigger block is imo more valuable than smaller and a hero, but ethereal could ruin your day.
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Post by wundapantz on Nov 5, 2022 1:32:31 GMT
Black orcs also are LD8, which is a point of difference as well, and they don't lose their benefits when beaten in combat (compared to frenzy). Blorcs are more likely to pass swift reform tests and rallies and operate further from the general
If ran with shields against s3 and S4, they are more resilient to being wounded than your SOBUs in hand to hand. Against shooting they are as resilient without paying for the LSH Shaman
As a unit you lose less attacks than SOBUs from your back ranks. This means there is comparatively more benefits to hording blorcs Unless your scenario rules state otherwise (aside from fluff), there is no reason to take a blorc hero in a blorc unit. I agree with the earlier post, more bodies over the hero but if I had to, I would choose a goblin big boss, mounted on giant spider, light armour, shield (maybe for shooting), great weapon and dragon and gem. Base size means he can hide in the unit, spider means he can run out, crossing obstacles, forests and empty buildings without penalty, and DBG means he can tie up a flaming attack unit from getting to your trolls.
Blorcs without animosity are great units to bunker lvl4 wizards in.
Blorcs with Grimgor are really decent. Especially with the banner of swiftness allowing them to push deep marching turn 1 and apply early pressure. It is an Eggs in one basket strategy
Blorcs also make good hidey holes for other characters like Skarsnik and Wurzag when they are your general as you can use the standard of discipline and still protect your BSB.
In deployment you can drop your black orcs early, knowing your opponent's knights and monsters won't want to set up opposite, so you can force them into other bad match ups.
Blorcs with flaming banner are great regen hunters and excellent building clearers. I would take a hero with a magic weapon if I expected the 2++ ward saves ( dwarfs, high elves, and units with characters) just to take him out.
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Post by mcnuggs on Nov 7, 2022 2:06:27 GMT
Thank you all for the advice! I’ve decided that I’m Da Boss and rewrote my lists to include a big ol’ horde of Black Orcs- very excited about having another fighty unit! My Savage Big Uns are my clear favorite child, so I’m hoping that the Blorcs can compete for my heart.
I think in 2500 point games I will run Grimgor (probably renamed and flavored because his lore is very mid) and a magic banner for my fellas, but not below that.
I have had so much fun with this army, and after a few games (some very good, some DISASTROUS) I’m beginning to feel like a true git. I love when a list comes together!
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