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Post by grandmasterwang on Nov 13, 2022 6:13:02 GMT
Vampire Lord [500pts]: Aura of Dark Majesty, Dark Acolyte, Fear Incarnate, Great Weapon, Lore of the Vampires, Quickblood, The General of Undeath, Wizard Level 4
. Magic Items: BRB - Armour of Destiny, BRB - Channeling Staff
+ Heroes +
Necromancer [90pts]: Lore of the Vampires, Wizard Level 1
. Magic Items: BRB - Dispel Scroll
Tomb Banshee [95pts]
+ Core +
Crypt Ghouls [310pts]: Champion, 30x Crypt Ghoul
Skeleton Warriors [75pts]: 15x Skeleton Warrior
Zombies [145pts]: Musician, Standard Bearer, 45x Zombie
+ Special +
Grave Guard [285pts]
. Champion
. 20x Grave Guard: 20x Great Weapon
. Musician
. Standard Bearer: BRB - Banner of Swiftness
+ Rare +
Terrorgheist [250pts]: Infested, Rancid Maw
Terrorgheist [250pts]: Infested, Rancid Maw
++ Total: [2,000pts] ++
Vs
+ Lords +
Great Bray-Shaman [309pts]: Additional Hand Weapon, Lore of Beasts, Mark of Tzeentch, Wizard Level 4
. Magic Items: Beastmen - Jagged Dagger, BRB - Potion of Foolhardiness, BRB - Talisman of Preservation
+ Heroes +
Gorebull [238pts]: Additional Hand Weapon, Battle Standard Bearer, Heavy Armour, Mark of Tzeentch
. Magic Items: Slug-Skin
+ Core +
Warhoofs Centigors [500pts]
. 12x Centigor: 12x Spear and Shield, 12x Throwing Axes
. Champion
. . Ghorros Warhoof (FAQ'ed): AB - Mansmasher, AB - Skull of the Unicorn Lord
. Musician
. Standard Bearer
+ Special +
Bestigor Herd [381pts]
. 24x Bestigor: 24x Mark of Tzeentch
. Champion
. Musician
. Standard Bearer: BRB - Standard of Discipline
Minotaurs [195pts]
. 3x Minotaur: 3x Great Weapon, 3x Mark of Tzeentch
Razorgor Chariot [155pts]: Mark of Tzeentch
Razorgor Chariot [145pts]
Razorgor Herd [55pts]: Razorgor
++ Total: [1,978pts] ++
The extra 12 points are for Tzeentch Centigor marks.
Played this battle last week.
Ended up getting a solid with with the Beastmen.
Razorgor chariot with Wildform on the charge was able to take out a Terrorgheist.
Ghorros Centigor actually did great, flank charge on zombies to crumble them. Tzeentch ward saves saved 2 which is probably worthwhile.
Ghorros and his unit survived which was great and it was excellent to have them perform. I deployed them far right flank and they fought zombies then ghouls later.
The actual Shaman build is imo a pretty strong one with the ward save of 3+
Channelling staff for the VC got a couple of extra dice throughout the game.
I would consider the twin Terrorgheist list to be a fair bit stronger overall than the Beastmen one but curious as to if eefl agrees.
Any thoughts on the lists?
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Post by yrrdead on Nov 17, 2022 7:11:57 GMT
Thoughts on the vamps;
Overall - seems kind of muddled, as in doesn't clearly have a plan to win. If you are going full LD Bomb then do that, don't half ass it.
Lord - Not a great fan of the ambiLord. I prefer to specialize my lord choice, either chainsaw or caster. In general I prefer caster.
Heroes - scroll caddy not much to say. Banshee part of ld bomb so kind of fun to play around with.
Core - I don't like to pay for zombies above minimum unit size, if I need them I'm going to rez them the first couple turns. I would downsize the zombie and upsize the ghoul unit.
Special - Grave Guard need hw+shields with that small of a unit. Great Weapons are for a horde that plans on killing anything. This army isn't set up to do that so equip them appropriately.
Rare - Yep they scream.
So what does this army do well? It doesn't have any real strong combat units. It isn't caster heavy. It doesn't quite have the full LD Bomb combo. This (imo) is a very weak VC list. Maybe that is your meta but I would say probably not considering the makeup of your Beastmen is really strong (yes still beastmen I get it). But I don't see really any bad choices in that list.
If you were to give these armies to random people I feel like beastmen win more often than not.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Nov 24, 2022 12:48:57 GMT
Thoughts on the vamps; Overall - seems kind of muddled, as in doesn't clearly have a plan to win. If you are going full LD Bomb then do that, don't half ass it. Lord - Not a great fan of the ambiLord. I prefer to specialize my lord choice, either chainsaw or caster. In general I prefer caster. Heroes - scroll caddy not much to say. Banshee part of ld bomb so kind of fun to play around with. Core - I don't like to pay for zombies above minimum unit size, if I need them I'm going to rez them the first couple turns. I would downsize the zombie and upsize the ghoul unit. Special - Grave Guard need hw+shields with that small of a unit. Great Weapons are for a horde that plans on killing anything. This army isn't set up to do that so equip them appropriately. Rare - Yep they scream. So what does this army do well? It doesn't have any real strong combat units. It isn't caster heavy. It doesn't quite have the full LD Bomb combo. This (imo) is a very weak VC list. Maybe that is your meta but I would say probably not considering the makeup of your Beastmen is really strong (yes still beastmen I get it). But I don't see really any bad choices in that list. If you were to give these armies to random people I feel like beastmen win more often than not. Appreciate your thoughts. Neither of these lists was intended to be particularly overpowering hence no super caster for the VC and units like the 15 skeletons which clearly aren't optimal. What would you consider to be a full Leadership bomb for VC at 2000 points out of curiosity? VC plan would be to scream and kill the beastmen with Banshee and twin Terrorgheist's which are considered strong options. Certainly vs a low Leadership army such as Beastmen with no Beastlord (ld 8 Shaman). GraveGuard with Great weapons match up well vs all the options in the Beastmen list. They strike the same time as the Minotaurs and Bestigor which also strike last (so GG still get all their attacks regardless of casualties) and kill Centigor on a 2+. On the flipside there was also only a small Bestigor unit of 24 used and no Gor at all so the VC have the durability/numbers edge with the Ghouls/zombies (in principle) despite the small Graveguard. Very surprised to read that you considered my Beastmen army list to be very stong as I thought it as a very soft but fun themed list. Reasons being: -No Beastlord so Ld 8 vs multiple terror causers and fear tests across the board -No Gor unit (considered best Beastmen core option) -Centigors are usually considered one of the worst units in the game for the points and here they are a quarter of the Beastmen army. -Minotaurs with Great Weapons are usually considered very overcosted and only good in large/minobus style units. -No harpies/flying units vs 2 Flying monsters -Very low chaff for a Beastmen army I agree on Ghouls being a better core VC option than zombies but here VC player had recently acquired a bunch of zombies and wanted to have them on the tabletop in all their glory 😀 |
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Post by yrrdead on Nov 25, 2022 9:45:18 GMT
First off I can't recall the last time I've even played against Beastmen so grain of salt needed. I really just like minotaur's and seeing a lord caster. I will 100% believe you if you say this is a soft beastmen list.
I do agree that the twin Terrorghiests are strong. Though again depends on opponents. I'm not the biggest fan of them myself but mainly because there is a lot of shooting in my meta. In this particular matchup they don't want to get into combat with any unit aside from the Bestigors (only unit they can Tstomp). So they can fly but aren't able to march. I suppose against no shooting you could get behind and try to get points back with screams. And points denial if staying out of combat.
As far as the LD bomb you are actually in pretty good shape, for some reason I didn't see that your very first power was aura. Though I don't care for fear incarnate, I do consider the screaming banner a must and I also like to take Death lore. I rarely full combo myself. Usually just terror+screaming banner as a decent defensive/offensive combo.
The issue again is that the VC army only has one unit that may win a combat. That same unit is also pretty small. Which means it may not survive 1 round of combat + combat resolution. Lvl 4 vs Lvl 4 means you probably only get 1 spell off. And if your opponent is decent means he's going to block invo.
So I would instead think about the entire army being a tarpit. Just don't worry about killing anything in combat, simply bog down every unit in combat. Then use terrorgheists to safely scream their way to victory without them actually being in danger. I would then swap the grave guard for crypt horrors instead as they make a better anvil (imo) and can be rezzed 5 wounds per cast (with lvl 4). Or again just hw+shield the grave guard. The biggest issue being certain scenarios are going to be very difficult. But that is true with almost any VC list.
Points I would immediately save in this list without changing any units at all, just freeing up points to be reallocated -
Vamp Lord;
Dark Acolyte -25pts This just doesn't do much.
Great Weapon - 10pts I would never take a GW on a Vamp lord. +2S for ASL...No thanks.
Grave Guard;
Banner of swiftness - 15pts. I can't think of why I would want +1M on this unit.
Terrorgheist;
Rancid Maw- 15
Infested - 10
Both of these upgrades are pretty bad
100 pts to play with. Enough for another necro, or a corpse cart, Fell Bats, more grave guard. Even just pump back into the lord with some of VC's powerful items , Book of Arkhan springs to mind.
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