Post by pete on Nov 12, 2023 9:31:21 GMT
Fidelis, thank you for explaining. Normally I can follow your logic when you correct my mistakes but I just can’t see it on this occasion. The bit I don’t follow is when you say:
"”Base contact" here can grammatically and logically only mean "base contact between the reforming unit models and the enemy unit models."
When I read:
"[The combat reform] cannot be used to get a model (friend or foe) out of base contact with [the enemy / enemy models] if it was in contact before the reform was made..."
I see the words “the enemy” or “enemy models” and to me it means exactly that. I can’t see the context which means it has to be the same specific unit. (I would see the context if it said “the enemy models”.) Most of the time GW use the term ‘enemy unit’ and it seems this would be the obvious term if they meant the same specific unit I.e.:
"[The combat reform] cannot be used to get a model (friend or foe) out of base contact with the enemy unit it was in contact with before the reform was made..."
However, if we extend that logic to the last part:
“The model can be in base contact with a different enemy [model] at the end of the reform if you wish.”
it does counter my argument, i.e if they meant ‘different enemy unit’ they would have written it.
To muddy the waters further, their explanation of the rule seems wrong:
“The most common usage of a combat reform is to allow the unit to turn to face its enemy (if attacked in the flank or rear), although it can also be used to bring more models into the fight by increasing the unit's frontage.”
How can you commonly turn to face (and not also bring more models into the fight) when you also commonly have command models in the unit which forbids this? How about a monster on a rectangular base (unless it is a Treeman), which also can’t turn and face?
Your last paragraph:
“Speaking about movement: Warhammer is a permissive system…”
the reform rules appear to allow the models to move individually so long as they don’t move double their movement and end up in a legal formation. As such they can move around intervening terrain or models (not through). So, if the chariot (in the original example but with Marauders in the flank) were able to move out of btb with the right hand model, it could move around the dp so long as it didn’t move double its move. Right?
Sorry for the essay. I hope I’m not wasting your time.
"”Base contact" here can grammatically and logically only mean "base contact between the reforming unit models and the enemy unit models."
When I read:
"[The combat reform] cannot be used to get a model (friend or foe) out of base contact with [the enemy / enemy models] if it was in contact before the reform was made..."
I see the words “the enemy” or “enemy models” and to me it means exactly that. I can’t see the context which means it has to be the same specific unit. (I would see the context if it said “the enemy models”.) Most of the time GW use the term ‘enemy unit’ and it seems this would be the obvious term if they meant the same specific unit I.e.:
"[The combat reform] cannot be used to get a model (friend or foe) out of base contact with the enemy unit it was in contact with before the reform was made..."
However, if we extend that logic to the last part:
“The model can be in base contact with a different enemy [model] at the end of the reform if you wish.”
it does counter my argument, i.e if they meant ‘different enemy unit’ they would have written it.
To muddy the waters further, their explanation of the rule seems wrong:
“The most common usage of a combat reform is to allow the unit to turn to face its enemy (if attacked in the flank or rear), although it can also be used to bring more models into the fight by increasing the unit's frontage.”
How can you commonly turn to face (and not also bring more models into the fight) when you also commonly have command models in the unit which forbids this? How about a monster on a rectangular base (unless it is a Treeman), which also can’t turn and face?
Your last paragraph:
“Speaking about movement: Warhammer is a permissive system…”
the reform rules appear to allow the models to move individually so long as they don’t move double their movement and end up in a legal formation. As such they can move around intervening terrain or models (not through). So, if the chariot (in the original example but with Marauders in the flank) were able to move out of btb with the right hand model, it could move around the dp so long as it didn’t move double its move. Right?
Sorry for the essay. I hope I’m not wasting your time.