twd
Junior Member
Warhammer player since 1st Edition - play Orcs, Dwarfs, Ogres, Daemons and Empire
Posts: 77
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Post by twd on Jan 29, 2024 23:44:33 GMT
---------Not sure what you're saying. I'm my view, infantry was KING in WFB 8th edition. I think you misread my original statement, but not sure. Are you staying infantry is not good in WFB 8? Seemed like you were saying smaller units will be more viable in ToW. I don't think they will because the enemy will charge in with cav, kill the front rank, you get no attacks back and then you get run down. Just like in 5th - 7th. Smaller 15-25 man blocks have a place in 8th. They are better for bunkers to protect wizards and guard warmachine flanks. They will not be your front line troops. Except that FBIGO and Give Ground mean they don't run you down. You back away and then charge that unit of knights in the flank with something else.
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Post by mrbaldrick on Jan 31, 2024 16:53:25 GMT
Seemed like you were saying smaller units will be more viable in ToW. I don't think they will because the enemy will charge in with cav, kill the front rank, you get no attacks back and then you get run down. Just like in 5th - 7th. Smaller 15-25 man blocks have a place in 8th. They are better for bunkers to protect wizards and guard warmachine flanks. They will not be your front line troops. Except that FBIGO and Give Ground mean they don't run you down. You back away and then charge that unit of knights in the flank with something else. You are counting on a lot of your opponent to leave their flanks exposed. From what I understand there are situations where you can't give ground and you flee just like other editions. A return to super characters, Cav is King, and throw away infantry, is not more appealing than 8th. I played 5th when it was new and see no point in returning. To each their own.
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Post by pellegrim on Jan 31, 2024 19:00:34 GMT
Except that FBIGO and Give Ground mean they don't run you down. You back away and then charge that unit of knights in the flank with something else. You are counting on a lot of your opponent to leave their flanks exposed. From what I understand there are situations where you can't give ground and you flee just like other editions. A return to super characters, Cav is King, and throw away infantry, is not more appealing than 8th. I played 5th when it was new and see no point in returning. To each their own. I don't follow. Or you don't. When you FBIGO or GG, you fall back (into your own battle line). He can never in the life of him protect all his flanks. And it's always your turn next. Sure he can setup counter to counter charges, but this brings him within range of your own charges. Its look like a very fun system
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Post by thorpyuk on Jan 31, 2024 19:04:18 GMT
Except that FBIGO and Give Ground mean they don't run you down. You back away and then charge that unit of knights in the flank with something else. You are counting on a lot of your opponent to leave their flanks exposed. From what I understand there are situations where you can't give ground and you flee just like other editions. A return to super characters, Cav is King, and throw away infantry, is not more appealing than 8th. I played 5th when it was new and see no point in returning. To each their own. Couldn't agree more... having to sit there, receiving a charge, getting butchered, running away, rinse/repeat wasn't any fun ever
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twd
Junior Member
Warhammer player since 1st Edition - play Orcs, Dwarfs, Ogres, Daemons and Empire
Posts: 77
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Post by twd on Jan 31, 2024 19:40:52 GMT
Except that FBIGO and Give Ground mean they don't run you down. You back away and then charge that unit of knights in the flank with something else. You are counting on a lot of your opponent to leave their flanks exposed. From what I understand there are situations where you can't give ground and you flee just like other editions. A return to super characters, Cav is King, and throw away infantry, is not more appealing than 8th. I played 5th when it was new and see no point in returning. To each their own. The only situation where you don't GG or FBIGO is if you roll over your unmodified Ld - exactly as you did in 8th. Any other result and you either FBIGO or GG. This *will* leave flanks exposed. Whether you are a able to exploit that fact is up to you (I wasn't when I played ) We didn't find Cavalry to be King. It hit hard, but then bogged down so there were chances to deal with it. We didn't use any big characters on monsters so I don't know for certain but I expect they'll work like cavalry. Infantry aren't "throw away" *though you probably could do MSU that way. They're an anvil. You'll win games by combining blocks of infantry (to hold your opponent) and then counter attacking with things that hit hard (cavalry, monsters, infantry with multpile attacks or high AP).
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twd
Junior Member
Warhammer player since 1st Edition - play Orcs, Dwarfs, Ogres, Daemons and Empire
Posts: 77
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Post by twd on Jan 31, 2024 19:44:12 GMT
You are counting on a lot of your opponent to leave their flanks exposed. From what I understand there are situations where you can't give ground and you flee just like other editions. A return to super characters, Cav is King, and throw away infantry, is not more appealing than 8th. I played 5th when it was new and see no point in returning. To each their own. Couldn't agree more... having to sit there, receiving a charge, getting butchered, running away, rinse/repeat wasn't any fun ever You don't run away though (unless you roll high LD but then you ran away in that case in *every* edition). You shuffle back a bit and the fight goes on (though your attacker will have less of an advantage in the next round) or you fall back - which gives you the opportunity to get some other troops in to help your battered lads. To be clear I'm not saying it's better than 8th (I personally think it's a bit fiddly and over complicated) but it certainly isn't a simple return to an earlier edition of getting wiped out on the charge with no hope of responding.
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Post by mrbaldrick on Jan 31, 2024 19:54:44 GMT
You are counting on a lot of your opponent to leave their flanks exposed. From what I understand there are situations where you can't give ground and you flee just like other editions. A return to super characters, Cav is King, and throw away infantry, is not more appealing than 8th. I played 5th when it was new and see no point in returning. To each their own. I don't follow. Or you don't. When you FBIGO or GG, you fall back (into your own battle line). He can never in the life of him protect all his flanks. And it's always your turn next. Sure he can setup counter to counter charges, but this brings him within range of your own charges. Its look like a very fun system You still stand a good chance of breaking, you don't always give ground. Then they will either run you down or restrain and reform and break another unit.
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Post by mrbaldrick on Jan 31, 2024 19:58:26 GMT
The only situation where you don't GG or FBIGO is if you roll over your unmodified Ld - exactly as you did in 8th. Any other result and you either FBIGO or GG. This *will* leave flanks exposed. Whether you are a able to exploit that fact is up to you (I wasn't when I played ) We didn't find Cavalry to be King. It hit hard, but then bogged down so there were chances to deal with it. We didn't use any big characters on monsters so I don't know for certain but I expect they'll work like cavalry. Infantry aren't "throw away" *though you probably could do MSU that way. They're an anvil. You'll win games by combining blocks of infantry (to hold your opponent) and then counter attacking with things that hit hard (cavalry, monsters, infantry with multpile attacks or high AP). At least in 8th you have a chance to swing back and possibly even the odds. All you have in ToW is the opportunity to grab you knees and hope you don't roll over your leadership. Have fun with it.
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Post by pellegrim on Jan 31, 2024 20:06:06 GMT
I don't follow. Or you don't. When you FBIGO or GG, you fall back (into your own battle line). He can never in the life of him protect all his flanks. And it's always your turn next. Sure he can setup counter to counter charges, but this brings him within range of your own charges. Its look like a very fun system You still stand a good chance of breaking, you don't always give ground. Then they will either run you down or restrain and reform and break another unit. Not always. But often. Warband rules etc. No reason at all to gloom and doom. Also, how awesome that a unit charging in gets to do all attacks even if its clipping a corner only. That used to be a monsters privilage.
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twd
Junior Member
Warhammer player since 1st Edition - play Orcs, Dwarfs, Ogres, Daemons and Empire
Posts: 77
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Post by twd on Jan 31, 2024 20:27:49 GMT
The only situation where you don't GG or FBIGO is if you roll over your unmodified Ld - exactly as you did in 8th. Any other result and you either FBIGO or GG. This *will* leave flanks exposed. Whether you are a able to exploit that fact is up to you (I wasn't when I played ) We didn't find Cavalry to be King. It hit hard, but then bogged down so there were chances to deal with it. We didn't use any big characters on monsters so I don't know for certain but I expect they'll work like cavalry. Infantry aren't "throw away" *though you probably could do MSU that way. They're an anvil. You'll win games by combining blocks of infantry (to hold your opponent) and then counter attacking with things that hit hard (cavalry, monsters, infantry with multpile attacks or high AP). At least in 8th you have a chance to swing back and possibly even the odds. All you have in ToW is the opportunity to grab you knees and hope you don't roll over your leadership. Have fun with it. Ok, I will. Thanks for the permission.
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twd
Junior Member
Warhammer player since 1st Edition - play Orcs, Dwarfs, Ogres, Daemons and Empire
Posts: 77
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Post by twd on Jan 31, 2024 20:33:07 GMT
I don't follow. Or you don't. When you FBIGO or GG, you fall back (into your own battle line). He can never in the life of him protect all his flanks. And it's always your turn next. Sure he can setup counter to counter charges, but this brings him within range of your own charges. Its look like a very fun system You still stand a good chance of breaking, you don't always give ground. Then they will either run you down or restrain and reform and break another unit. You stand a smaller chance of breaking in TOW than you do in 8th. In 8th you break if you roll above your Ld along with any modifiers. In TOW you only break if you roll above your unmodified Ld.
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Post by pellegrim on Jan 31, 2024 21:26:19 GMT
Watching a second battle report, its really dang cool. Fears are understandable but I'd really experience it yourself.
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Post by jamesacon on Feb 25, 2024 22:03:07 GMT
Hello all,
Thought I would voice my opinion on lack of supporting attacks. I have played 6 games now and all with Beastmen.
Have played against : Ogres x 2 Orcs and goblins x 2 Vampire counts Dwarfs
I'm still on the fence about the game. And the one thing I really don't like is the no step up. I feel if they kept Combat the way it worked in 8th and implemented the new rules I would be much happier. The simple reason for my dislike is the removal of player interaction. I don't enjoy not being able to do anything when losing front rank, or enjoy watching my opponent do the same.
Now there are other issues I have with Combat, but the rest is about adjustment. And a different topic haha.
I play this game to roll dice, I don't have fun when there are none rolled haha.
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