|
|
Post by pendrake on May 9, 2017 14:17:58 GMT
Is there a thread where changes to the 8th edition rules are discussed? If there is not one, which sub-board would be the appropriate one to start one?
If EEFL means "Eighth Edition For Life because it was absolutely perfect in every last way". Then I might be on the wrong forum. If that is what this one is dedicated to.
EEFL where it means Eight Edition Fixed Longterm is really more in line with my thinking. I do think 8th was an improvement over 7th, 7th was a bit better than 6, 6th cured 5th of hero hammer syndrome. BUT EIGHT WAS NOT PERFECT. It had some flaws. Flaws I hoped they would fix with a Warhammer 9th.
But AOS happened.
I just wondered if there was a thread somewhere dedicated discussing how to perfect 8th.
I have been looking, not finding. But I can't say I have exhaustively read every thread in here.
|
|
|
|
Post by mahbruck on May 9, 2017 14:33:30 GMT
The army books in the 8th are pretty unbalanced, thats why there have been lots of effort to improve on individual army books. But the main rulebook, hm? I'm just curious what are the flaws of the 8th edition Rulebook then? Enlighten me please.
|
|
|
|
Post by Horace on May 9, 2017 14:38:17 GMT
I don't think there is such a thread but by all means start one  I was hoping for a fine tuning 9th also, 8th is by no means perfect but I think it got more right than most other editions of WFB I have played. Things off the top of my head I would like to have seen fixed/changed: Laser guided cannons (perhaps a roll to hit involved somehow) The miscast table changed to punish you more severely the more dice you throw Some of the spell casting values realigned Charging granting ASF in the first round of combat, but perhaps without the re-rolls (not even that big a deal with step up) |
|
|
|
Post by TheREALricksalamone on May 9, 2017 15:13:26 GMT
Is there a thread where changes to the 8th edition rules are discussed? If there is not one, which sub-board would be the appropriate one to start one? If EEFL means "Eighth Edition For Life because it was absolutely perfect in every last way". Then I might be on the wrong forum. If that is what this one is dedicated to. EEFL where it means Eight Edition Fixed Longterm is really more in line with my thinking. I do think 8th was an improvement over 7th, 7th was a bit better than 6, 6th cured 5th of hero hammer syndrome. BUT EIGHT WAS NOT PERFECT. It had some flaws. Flaws I hoped they would fix with a Warhammer 9th. But AOS happened. I just wondered if there was a thread somewhere dedicated discussing how to perfect 8th. I have been looking, not finding. But I can't say I have exhaustively read every thread in here. EEFL as in:
8th edition warhammer fantasy battles is the last edition that will ever be made of the wargame we love. Knowing that we will never see any update to the rules or fluff from GW ever again, this site is dedicated to preserving this rich world and the game system for playing battles in it.
We accept the rules as written and realize that keeping them allows us to have a common language. AoS, 9th Age, and KoW were like the Tower of Babel for Warhammer. The army books, on the other hand...we can produce a revised book and players can choose to use it or stay with the older GW version.
|
|
|
|
Post by mahbruck on May 9, 2017 15:15:16 GMT
I don't think there is such a thread but by all means start one I was hoping for a fine tuning 9th also, 8th is by no means perfect but I think it got more right than most other editions of WFB I have played. Things off the top of my head I would like to have seen fixed/changed: Laser guided cannons (perhaps a roll to hit involved somehow) The miscast table changed to punish you more severely the more dice you throw Some of the spell casting values realigned Charging granting ASF in the first round of combat, but perhaps without the re-rolls (not even that big a deal with step up) 1. The cannon is certainly better, and I, for one, want to return to the golden days of guessing but it's hardly laser guided. You still have the pretty random bounce dices to content with. 2. Magic is super strong but that's why the 8th is more suitable for massive battles, not the merely medium ones. Also, the more dices you throw the more chance you get a devastating miscast (albeit also entailed with a quite beneficial IF!) 4. Charging is already rewarded by +1 combat res, and I don't see why a charging gnoblar has to be ASF against spearelves. In real life ruckus, a defensive person with greater agility and initiative will strike first against a very cumbersome charger for most of the times. |
|
|
|
Post by Horace on May 9, 2017 16:01:57 GMT
I don't think there is such a thread but by all means start one I was hoping for a fine tuning 9th also, 8th is by no means perfect but I think it got more right than most other editions of WFB I have played. Things off the top of my head I would like to have seen fixed/changed: Laser guided cannons (perhaps a roll to hit involved somehow) The miscast table changed to punish you more severely the more dice you throw Some of the spell casting values realigned Charging granting ASF in the first round of combat, but perhaps without the re-rolls (not even that big a deal with step up) 1. The cannon is certainly better, and I, for one, want to return to the golden days of guessing but it's hardly laser guided. You still have the pretty random bounce dices to content with. 2. Magic is super strong but that's why the 8th is more suitable for massive battles, not the merely medium ones. Also, the more dices you throw the more chance you get a devastating miscast (albeit also entailed with a quite beneficial IF!) 4. Charging is already rewarded by +1 combat res, and I don't see why a charging gnoblar has to be ASF against spearelves. In real life ruckus, a defensive person with greater agility and initiative will strike first against a very cumbersome charger for most of the times. I didn't really mind the removal of guessing too much, I found I was pretty much able to guess the ranges almost exactly after many games of 5th and it felt a little bit cheaty in a way. But then again I probably prefer it to simply placing the template or automatically shooting down the right lanes with a cannon I don't mind that magic is strong, infact I think it is essential that magic is strong to remove the temptation for people to load up on mega horde deathstars (funnily enough it is these people which complain about various spells). I wouldn't mind a miscasting table of escalating severity depending how many die you chucked. You could even go beyond 6 dice! Regarding charging, I just feel it has been nerfed a little. +1 CR is not really much reward for maneuvering yourself a charge. All in all I'm not too bothered, I think 8th is a very solid edition and actually the army books are not too far off each other |
|
|
|
Post by wilsonthenarc on May 9, 2017 16:16:35 GMT
I think that, and I am not sure if I speak for all of EEFL, the Rules as written are the BRB: Big Red Book. Period. These are the core rules. I think that, game by game and for each group, commonly accepted FAQs for WFB that were printed before and during the "End Times" are accepted. This means an actual document from GW. Beyond that, we have tons of flexibility. --There are GW produced army books and other documentation for: Undead Legions, combined Chaos, etc. -- KevinC continues to invent new units as well as introduce EEFL rules for miniatures currently being produced by GW. Especially for units that only have AoS rules. Think: Tzaangor Skyfires. --For our campaign, we introduced errata for Tomb Kings. Giving them slightly different resurrection rules for magic and so forth. TL; DR 1). I think EEFL = the BRB 2). You can add stuff, but it can't contradict the BRB |
|
|
|
Post by wilsonthenarc on May 9, 2017 16:20:03 GMT
1. The cannon is certainly better ... but it's hardly laser guided. I think cannons in EEFL are in fact, super-duper laser guided. Like, to an unrealistic and unfair degree. That is NOT how a gunpowder cannon would or could actually work in real life, IMHO. But... that is 8th as written in the BRB and that is how we play EEFL. Cannons exists in an ecosystem to prevent Demon Princes and Phoenix and so forth. Let them have their laser guided cannons. Let them have their Tar-Tar sauce.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 16:55:30 GMT
pendrake : By all means create a thread! I'd love to brainstorm ways for individual groups to improve upon the game if it suits them. I think a lot of us want to stick with just a straight-up pure 8th edition that way we're all playing the same game with the same rules, and could (theoretically if you could find an opponent) find an opponent anywhere you go and not have to worry about playing with different rules. But that doesn't mean we can't help other groups figure things out!
|
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on May 9, 2017 22:38:31 GMT
In regards to the more dice thrown at spells = higher chance for a miscast issue, I think that if that were implemented, you'd see more "Suicide Mages" who simply charge an enemy and cast everything at a "nuke spell". Big Spell going off and the chance to blow up in your enemies face. Done. Could you imagine just how many Lv1 Goblin Shamans would be doing that? And for what, 35 points?
|
|
|
|
Post by pendrake on May 9, 2017 22:44:43 GMT
...I was hoping for a fine tuning 9th also, 8th is by no means perfect but I think it got more right than most other editions of WFB I have played... Completely agree ^ with that. The big thing 8th did over seventh (IMO) was do something about the way Cavalry dominated Infantry in prior versions. I will ponder where to start a thread for this topic. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 22:47:37 GMT
In regards to the more dice thrown at spells = higher chance for a miscast issue, I think that if that were implemented, you'd see more "Suicide Mages" who simply charge an enemy and cast everything at a "nuke spell". Big Spell going off and the chance to blow up in your enemies face. Done. Could you imagine just how many Lv1 Goblin Shamans would be doing that? And for what, 35 points? That's mitigated though in part by only allowing a single 'number 6' spell (per lore chosen)in the army. Now if there were a suitably nasty signature spell out there that would be another story. I don't know what to do about miscast table modification though, because I dislike the high results just as much as the low ones, the low ones are just deadlier for the mage and people close by him/her. It seems like a total rewrite or at least a reordering would be needed in order to enact this idea, that way you could implement something like: 2 dice:+2 3 dice:+1 4 dice:no effect 5 dice:-1 6 dice:-2 That's how I would like to handle it. |
|
|
|
Post by pendrake on May 9, 2017 23:36:14 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by NIGHTBRINGER on May 10, 2017 5:18:07 GMT
1. The cannon is certainly better ... but it's hardly laser guided. I think cannons in EEFL are in fact, super-duper laser guided. Like, to an unrealistic and unfair degree. That is NOT how a gunpowder cannon would or could actually work in real life, IMHO. But... that is 8th as written in the BRB and that is how we play EEFL. Cannons exists in an ecosystem to prevent Demon Princes and Phoenix and so forth. Let them have their laser guided cannons. Let them have their Tar-Tar sauce.
I agree. Cannons are way too accurate. If I could pick only one thing to change about 8th edition it would be to decrease the accuracy of cannons. I'd love to see WFB games where monsters are completely viable options. As it stands now, there are only a handful of monsters that are worth taking unless you are certain that your opposition will not be fielding cannons. That said, if that change were implemented, then someone else would have another grip, and another person would show up with another change. I think the whole thing falls apart very quickly, so I like the spirit of this forum just the way it is. 8th edition, unmodified! |
|
|
|
Post by Horace on May 10, 2017 9:14:36 GMT
That said, if that change were implemented, then someone else would have another grip, and another person would show up with another change. I think the whole thing falls apart very quickly, so I like the spirit of this forum just the way it is. 8th edition, unmodified! I do thoroughly agree with this. This is the problem with things like 9th age. You are never going to produce something which satisfies everyone's gripes, GW had 8 goes at it and got nowhere near! I do think it is a bit of an internet myth that monsters aren't viable. You need to take some precautions in the early turns if you do not want them shooting at, but that is just part of the game isn't it? It has always been that way |
|
