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Post by Baronthehumbled on Jun 6, 2017 23:05:20 GMT
I think this is more the reason as GW already spent a fortune for new machinery in 2015 which we saw the results of in the Tzeentch releases.
They wanted to put their new stuff to use on their most popular line but without invalidating everyone's current marine collections. Thus the Primarus marines.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Jun 6, 2017 23:43:12 GMT
Don't know whether it is related or not, but now I'm desperately jealous of 40k fans. The whole Warhammer Fantasy and Age of Sigmar were the guinea pigs tested on by GW to make sure the transition of 40k into a more profitable, newbie-friendly edition (yet still appealing to the old guards) is an absolutely success. But to look on the bright side, the relentless scaremongering on those marine lads during the past two years had been hilarious though If it makes you feel better some of the new lore for the new 40k is so bad it makes some of the End Times: Khaine stuff look decent. Warhammer Fantasy was/is a far superior game to 40k (6th and 7th). I'm actually going to try out the new 40k rules as I have a decent number of 40k models. I agree that GW learnt from the transition from WHF to AOS and are attempting (and succeeding) to make a much smoother transition. The fact that so many 40k players are/were sick to death of the bloated, unbalanced jumbled mess of special rules that 40k had become has helped boost the new edition. I've read mixed things but I already prefer the new ruleset.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Jun 6, 2017 23:47:57 GMT
I'm convinced the Primaris Marines are more of a cash grab on GW's part. They've gotten to the point where there's so many Marine kits out there that they HAD to do something like that in order to get people to actually buy more Marines. There's crazies out there who will swap their entire armies out for Primaris Marines just so they're more "in scale" with other armies. Primaris Marines are the size that Marines always should have been. In all honesty it's a huge turnoff for me and one of the reasons I always ended up quitting 40k. 80% of the battles were always Marines fighting Marines; boring. They're cool as hell though (I have a small Raven Guard army, but it's for 30k where Marine v Marine is expected) Primaris marines imo look cool but the lore surrounding their introduction is absolutely terrible. The 'Guilmarines' have been jammed into the fluff which has all the established chapters losing loads and loads of normal marines (see new Blood Angels fluff Abomination where Guiliman rocks up across the Galaxy to save Dante) in order to 'make room' for the new Primaris marines. The lore for 40k is one of the very best things about it but GW is failing pretty had with it at the moment. I read the atrocious Curse of the Wulfen and it would appear that the new lore/fluff is the same type of garbage. Love the new Nurgle Terminator Lord mini though!
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Post by mottdon on Jun 7, 2017 13:42:12 GMT
Back on topic of the thread, I think that GW is simply trying to get every last drop of milk from the cow they've already slaughtered. They see games like Total War come up and realize that it's a really GOOD idea, and are willing to let someone else run with it as long as they can still profit from it. If there was no profit, they'd shut it down.
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Post by gjnoronh on Jun 7, 2017 16:31:15 GMT
Well sure any computuer game carrying their IP is going to make them money. There are a A LOT of games now out there using the GW IP. I'd assume that would be true of any owner of Intellectual Property. WFB 8th fits better for Total War as a port (and the Total War folks were probably working on it long before AoS dropped 2 years ago)
They have released a number of computer games for old and not currently active table top systems Warhammer Quest, Battle Fleet Gothic, Space Hulk, Blood Bowl, Mordheim. It also by the way helps extend the IP license as they can show they are actively using the IP.
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Post by mottdon on Jun 7, 2017 17:45:57 GMT
I suppose I should have clarified myself. I think that these video games are the only reason GW still has anything to do with WFB. In all other respects, it is completely a thing of the past for them. If someone else wants to breathe life into it that doesn't involve them lifting a finger and it's profitable, then sure, go ahead. Otherwise, they're not ever doing anything with WFB ever again. But this is the very reason they will never sell the IP rights to WFB to anyone else.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 17:52:15 GMT
I agree mottdon. I think (unfortunately) that we've seen the last of the Old World (in tabletop form anyway).
Which is too bad. WFB 8th really was my favorite tabletop game of all time (despite its shortcomings and flaws). I'm hoping that I can keep it alive here in Alaska (I have two regular opponents; one of them is moving to Colorado next month and I don't know how consistent the other one can be. He's getting older and is having family/health crises a lot. Guess I should just pack up and move to Rochester NY)
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Post by gjnoronh on Jun 7, 2017 20:00:16 GMT
Just a reminder as we discussed earlier in this thread they are re-releasing with new cover art WFB 8th ed era novels from Black Library. They also had the option when they re released Blood Bowl this year of setting it in the AoS setting it's still in a pseudo WFB setting. They also released Mordheim computer game in the last year.
They have already in the last year chosen to do FOUR different things in the WFB world.
Calling Total War (or video games in general) the 'last thing' they choose to do with WFB/The World That Was is premature based on the evidence in the last year. Sales of IP to various partners is a big part of their total revenue stream. WFB wasn't selling toy soldiers well enough to justify it's existence but doesn't mean the IP doesn't have long term value.
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Post by mottdon on Jun 7, 2017 21:34:49 GMT
Oh, I'm VERY glad that they are coming out with new video games and re-releasing books, but those are things that GW isn't doing directly themselves. And since I don't see them letting any other miniature company to make WFB models for them, I'd say that we've seen the last of 8th edition advancement. All the video games, books and sub-games are wonderful, but without a main game supporting them, they'll eventually drop off and be forgotten...by GW that is! I almost feel certain that other companies (like Avatars of War, etc.) will fill the void that GW has left. It may take several years for some of these companies to build their supply of models, backstory and stock, but when they do, we'll have a new king on the fantasy throne. Kings of War seems to be leading the pack right now, but it still feels a little rushed to me. Only time will tell.
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Post by Horace on Jun 8, 2017 10:45:23 GMT
I agree with mottdon. I think they will only be interested in the Old World setting if it involves no/very little cost or effort to themselves.
Just what would they actually do to bring back Fantasy? Release it as some sort of AoS sub game? In which case how are they going to supply the models unless they retool a portion of their manufacturing, set aside a portion of their shelf space etc to provide the old models which they so ignominiously shit-canned. The IP certainly does have some value but I don't see GW really doing anything I will be interested in with it in the near/medium term future.
CA are doing good things with Total War, I see they have just announced another Race Pack (not Kislev) is coming soon. I love the way they interact with their community even in the face of the inevitable online abuse. GW should be taking lessons and fixing White Dwarf, creating a better community spirit and attitude towards the company in general.
I would be half tempted to try out 40k if I still didn't retain a simmering resentment towards GW after the Fantasy debacle. The only other thing really putting me off is having to put together/buy a whole new load of scenery since I lost 90% of my Necromunda stuff I could have used in a house fire.
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Post by gjnoronh on Jun 8, 2017 14:38:12 GMT
Kings of War isn't IMO remotely the game that WFB 8th was just because the units are ranked up doesn't put it in the same class of depth. Horace I'm actually quite impressed with GW's approach to the community the last two years. Heck Duncan has become a pretty beloved meme on the internet now. The Warhammer Community website and their facebook presence has been a 180 degree turn from the last decade or so. www.warhammer-community.com/Free online tools supported by GW for army building - that's a completely different model. Rapid turn around of FAQ's - distributing online draft FAQs for community input prior to becoming official. Really nice youtube presence. Bringing in various members of the community to be part of the official GW social media streams (see the community website for examples) Having fans come in to provide open feedback on the rules set (Generals Handbook 1) Having major faces (i.e Jervis Johnson) go on podcasts to talk about the behind the scenes of rules design. Don't confuse being mad about the end of 8th with what's going on with GW in the last two years. Their approach has been quite different then the decade or so prior. Is it enough change? That's up to each of us - but it's not the old GW.
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Post by Horace on Jun 8, 2017 14:55:24 GMT
In sort of related news, it sounds like we are getting the Norscans as a race pack for TW, with hopefully some tweaking to the WoC campaign
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 16:31:46 GMT
I'm also pleased with GW's new approach as well. I particularly enjoy their Facebook staff and the witty and condescending remarks they're not afraid to make when people ask stupid questions.
I just wish that this new GW could have happened 4-5 years ago when I still played 40k and fantasy hadn't been killed off yet.
And I agree with gjnoronh about Kings of War. While it's a great game system it's not the same as fantasy; the similarities stop once you get past the rank and file aspect of the game.
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Post by mottdon on Jun 8, 2017 17:40:56 GMT
I'm glad that GW is doing well with their new approach (or at least better). I kinda lost a lot of my enthusiasm for building my armies when they killed WFB though. Not much motivation for me to start anew.
Yeah, I've never played KoW, but from what other people are playing, it sounds like there are a good many trying it out. I don't know of any other fantasy-based game that is being adopted outside of GW games. That's why I consider them to be the next contender RIGHT NOW. I hope that changes and we get a better system SIMILAR to 8th edition, though not necessarily a continuation of it.
Meh. Either way, I have plenty of armies that my buddies and I can still play with. It'll never get old.
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Post by gjnoronh on Jun 8, 2017 18:39:23 GMT
If you are looking for close to 8th The 9th Age for all it's faults is really the spiritual successor to 8th. I find I generally can play 9th without knowing much about it just from knowing how 8th works. Having the flex to play a number of gaming systems with my existing toys is a win - I can try and find a tournament someplace closing using the same toys for 8th/9th Age/AoS (and KoW I would assume but I've never believed in their business model.)
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