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Post by gregwarhamsters on Jun 17, 2017 22:11:23 GMT
The guy who basically taught me to play at my LGS, always said that I couldn't S&S if he started his charge outside of my range, didn't succeed and stopped outside my range still. I always wondered about that. I would ask him, "Aren't my guys shooting anyway? Just because you didn't make it, doesn't mean they don't shoot." He'd simply reply, "Nope. Their range means their ammo doesn't reach me." I thought he was full of it. he's what I'd politly call misinformed, sure we can get rules wrong and I'd like to think we don't do it to be a cheat but the ruling as mentioned above is simple, if you can stand and shoot (not within the M value of the charger) it's done at the furthest point of the weapon system, as pointed out this is why a Thunderers champ takes a pistol (12" range) and then all the Thunders fire at 12" so don't suffer a range modifier. This still gets me from time to time. Threw me for a loop when I realized my Carnosaur has to pay for swiftstride. Yep, had me reaching for the rule book, but then again I tend to find people know what they need to know for their particular army, that said it's possible to catch people out. For example I played an Ogre player the other day, we traded off cannon shots, it wasn't until I read his army book I saw their range is limited to 36", sure across the tabel the shots with the bounce is most likey be in range but not from top right to bottom left. +1 for excellent topic, I never even considered the issue with blasting charges and now won't ever take them. Totally agree, easpecially as they come in at 2 points per model. I'm thinking this may have been something in a previous edition where thrown weapons didn't suffer a negative modifier to hit as they were so short range. Seems everything does take the -! which I'm happy with, but with regards to my skinks I may yet get javeline and shields and ditch the blowpipes.
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Post by vulcan on Jun 18, 2017 2:15:07 GMT
I can't back this up with rules at the moment as they're at home but: If the unit is fleeing then it doesn't matter the facing you were at; if you contact them they're dead. Pretty sure this is even spelled out in the declare charges section; "if a unit flees from a charge but the charging unit still has enough movement in their charge distance to contact them then they are removed". Something like that. I agree with you however if the unit is not fleeing. If you're in the front arc of a unit when you declare a charge AND THEY HOLD if you're unable to actually make contact with the facing you were in when you declared the charge then it's a failed charge. You don't get to start off in a units front arc and then magically contact them in the flank. This applies even if their front arc is completely full already with your own troops fighting them. You either charge somewhere else or maneuver into their flank using remaining moves and position for a next turn charge. I think the confusion may stem from the wording of the rules; when they flee you're no longer making a combat move but a pursuit move. OR think of it as a new charge against their rear arc in the final position they end up in, with the bonus of being able to wipe them completely out if you make contact with no dice rolling involved. Nope. I went looking for the exception to be made somewhere - ANYWHERE. It's not there. It never says you're considered to be making a pursuit move either. By RAW you can't complete a charge against a unit except in that pre-reaction-determined arc. I agree, looking at it as a pursuit move is the correct way to PLAY it. I'd never be that big a jerk to insist on playing it RAW, especially since I know what they MEANT from playing previous editions of WFB. But that's not how they wrote the rules...
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Post by mottdon on Jun 19, 2017 18:49:11 GMT
I don't have the rule book in front of my, but doesn't it say somewhere that you're supposed to play the rule as they were intended? Meaning, don't be a jerk! Lol! Maybe I just remember reading old topics on this...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 18:55:09 GMT
Forgot to look this up this weekend. I'll look through it tonight and post a more concise answer.
And I seriously doubt even if it is RAW that you'd meet anyone who will argue that case. Especially if they want to have a game with you ever again.
I understand though Vulcan that you're only pointing this out and playing devils advocate, not actually advocating it be played this way.
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Post by vulcan on Jun 19, 2017 21:27:48 GMT
I don't have the rule book in front of my, but doesn't it say somewhere that you're supposed to play the rule as they were intended? Meaning, don't be a jerk! Lol! Maybe I just remember reading old topics on this... Yep. Which is which is why I never even considered playing it RAW. It's just a fun thing to bring out when discussing rules and shutting down RAW vs RAI arguments.
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