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Post by knoffles on Aug 3, 2017 17:49:04 GMT
I should have said that I'm working within the upcoming club comp restrictions on my list so you can only take 1 of each rare choice. At some point I'll link the scenario and comp pack as it's reasonably restrictive. Likewise the standards are needed for many of the scenarios. I suppose if I wanted to be potentially more competitive, as you say, I'd probably drop the lord on great Stag (if only cos I could fit in another unit for that price and I'm not convinced that most combat lords make back their points) and bsb on eagle but I love the models and the fluff. I also only own 10 Wildriders but I could always proxy the great Stag as 2 riders which would allow me to take 2 units of 6. Im still tempted to drop the lord and perhaps dryads, if only because I wouldn't mind a unit of eternal guard (and a shadow dancer). That might just have to be the next iteration of the list!
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Post by mottdon on Aug 3, 2017 18:20:44 GMT
Hey, if you didn't like him in your last game, chances are you won't in this one, but I'm like you, I like the models too!
I do think that you'd be better off served with two units of 6 though. The BSB on Eagle might be a good thing though. He'll be able to get to where you need him most. The Charmed Shield will work well for him.
I really like the idea of Eternal Guard with a Shadow Dancer though. Give her the Glittering Scales, and it'll be hard to hit her!
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Post by knoffles on Sept 4, 2017 7:53:46 GMT
Right I've changed it up slightly as I wanted to add in some combat blocks and a few different things. I'd love feedback on what Lore to take. My instinct says Shadow but Life is definitely an option. I'm also curious on your thoughts about branchwraiths
Characters
Spellweaver (General) - Dispel Scroll - Talisman of Preservation - 290pts Branchwraith - 75pts Shadowdancer - Potion of Strength - 120pts Glade Captain (BSB) - Charmed Shield - HODA - Starfire shafts - Spear - Great Eagle - 191pts
Units
23 Eternal Guard (Spellweaver and Shadowdancer go here) - Shields, Musician, Standard, Standard of Discipline - 321pts 6 Treekin - Elder - 280pts 8 Wardancers (branchwraith will go here) - 120pts
6 Wildriders - Musician, Standard, Wild Hunter, Shields - 198pts 3 Warhawk Riders - 135pts 1 Great Eagle - 50pts
10 Glade Guard - Musician, Standard, Hagbane tips, Banner of Eternal Flame - 180pts 10 Glade Guard - Musician, Standard, Trueflight arrows - 170pts 10 Deepwood Scouts - Standard, Hagbane tips - 170pts 10 Waywatchers - 200pts
Total 2500pts
Now I've gone Shadow on the Spellweaver but I was tempted to try life, if only for the reason I've never taken it and because I thought it might complement the combat blocks. If I did change to life then it might mean I change the next option:
For the points, the Branchwraith seems like a bargain. Good combat stats and lore of life as default and works out cheaper than a basic spellsinger (though obviously lacks the magical versatility). In our comp we can only take a max 'wizard' level of 5 (and sisters count towards the total), so having a branchwraith seems a good option for the backup and fits in with the more combat orientated theme of this list. I envision her going in with the Wardancers. However I can't think of a time I've seen a Branchwraith used. Am I missing something here?
The mounted BSB is a force multiplier and is versatile and fast enough to be used anywhere.
The Shadowdancer is a bodyguard for the spellweaver. I've gone PoS rather than Glittering scales as I wanted her to be able to launch an alpha strike vs any threat that the unit would not normally be able to hurt, in the event I was unable to count on magical buffs. The scales give great survivability but don't help vs high toughness. She can also assist the unit with combat res.
I dropped the waystalker as I think they are a bit gimmicky but will look to use 2 in a future game as I think you need that many to be effective and focus fire on targets.
Treekin are to be used as an anvil to block any unit the rest of my army doesn't want to face.
They will probably be supported by the wardancers which should help offset the Treekins one main weakness (lack of ranks and standard). These are pretty much my favourite WE unit (along with the humble archers), so I was determined to try and fit them in. I took 8 rather than 5, to allow them to take some casualties.
The rest of the army is the same faire as I had in the previous list.
One unit of Gladeguard with poison and flaming for targeting regen monsters. The other for targeting chaff/skirmishers with trueflight. The Scouts are for targeting warmachines at first instance (and the warhawks can also fulfil this role). The waywatchers will likely go in the free venom thicket as it will give their armour ignoring shots, poison, to help with monstrous cav (if they target them). The great eagle will be used to block anything that might threaten the wildriders, to allow me not to worry about them charging into a preferred foe and then be counter charged.
Most of the units/characters are under 200pts, which means losing them isn't a huge blow to victory points. Oh and the reason for standards on most of them is because of many of the comp scenarios requiring them to score.
Cheers
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Post by knoffles on Sept 4, 2017 21:35:28 GMT
because I can't stop tinkering I have another take on the list:
The main changes are the level 4 back on Unicorn with High magic (hoping to get hand of glory). A horde of 39 glade guard with swiftshiver shafts. If placed in the free wood (venom thicket of course) it will pump out 78 flaming and poison AP shots at any target. The shadowdancer will go in this unit (and I've dropped the branchwraith and given her a level 1 lore of shadow upgrade).
The rest of the list remains pretty much the same.
Characters
Spellweaver (General) - lvl 4 - Dispel Scroll - Talisman of Preservation - Unicorn - High Magic - 350pts
Shadowdancer - lvl 1 - Lore of Shadow - Potion of Strength - 170pts
Glade Captain (BSB) - Charmed Shield - HODA - Spear - Great Eagle - 187pts
Units
6 Treekin - 270pts 7 Wardancers - Bladesinger - 115pts
6 Wildriders - Musician, Standard, Wild Hunter, Shields - 198pts 3 Warhawk Riders - 135pts 1 Great Eagle - 50pts
39 Glade Guard - Musician, Standard, Swiftshiver shafts, Banner of Eternal Flame - 654pts 10 Deepwood Scouts - Standard, Hagbane tips - 170pts 10 Waywatchers - 200pts
Total 2500pts
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Post by mottdon on Sept 5, 2017 17:00:32 GMT
Honestly, I like this second list much, much more. Though, I might put the BSB in that unit as well. It's an "all-in" kind of list. You lose them, you lose. Plus, with all of your other units, you should have plenty of redirecting and war machine hunters. The Treekin will tie down anything hard coming your way that you don't have time to shoot.
I like the use of High Magic here as well because it has much more offensive punch to it than Life does. Apothecary will give you the healing that the Branchwraith would've. You'll need that. And Miasma on your Shadowdancer should come in handy as well.
I'm still not convinced that the Potion of Strength is the best choice on your Shadowdancer, though I understand why you would choose that. I just think that if she is playing the "bodyguard" role, you'd want her to be as defensive as possible (aka, Glittering Scales). No getting through. Plus, you have spells that can help her get wounds through, if the Treekin fail. Just some food for thought.
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Post by knoffles on Sept 5, 2017 18:27:35 GMT
Cheers mottdon. In the second list I don't think the shadowdancer can take the scales as she has the wizard upgrade. I have of course already tinkered with this list to fit in 10 Glade guard with trueflight and putting the spellweaver in the unit (if you are going to go big you might as well go all in). I also think I also need to fit the crown of command on the spellweaver to give the unit stubborn when in the woods. I think you're right on the bsb as it would make me feel less apprehensive about him... just need to think about his loadout as ideally would want to keep the HODA but he would need to leave the unit to use it effectively so perhaps I need to look at something else.
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Post by mottdon on Sept 5, 2017 20:14:25 GMT
Really? I've never thought of her losing the ability to take defensive equipment when she take the caster level. Huh. I don't know why that never occurred to me.
What if you give the Crown of Command to the BSB? I know that makes a big target out of him, but you would have the Shadowdancer acting as the unit's bouncer. Drop the Charmed Shield for the Enchanted Shield and something like the Shrieking Blade so that the unit will cause Fear (and be immune to it)? He'd really be buffing the unit at that point and with Apotheosis, your caster can keep him healed up fairly well.
Dropping the Eagle on the BSB will give you a few more points to play with. Maybe a few more bodies in the Wardancers?
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Post by knoffles on Sept 6, 2017 7:43:19 GMT
I'm not 100% sure as nowhere near the brb but I thought if a model doesn't come with armour already equipped (e.g. The HE loremaster) then giving the model any armour, negates their ability to cast spells. I did think about giving the bsb the crown and the blade but fvon's thread about why it wouldn't give the unit immunity to fear (below) put me off a bit. I do agree that a magic weapon of some sort is probably needed so at least someone has magical attacks. eefl.freeforums.net/thread/638/flaming-attacks-brb-69?page=3
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Post by frozenfood on Sept 6, 2017 9:29:35 GMT
I just thought that you could not take magic armour if you do not have any armour to start with. That is the whole issue with Slaughtermasters getting an Iron Fist and such.
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Post by knoffles on Sept 6, 2017 11:32:25 GMT
I just thought that you could not take magic armour if you do not have any armour to start with. That is the whole issue with Slaughtermasters getting an Iron Fist and such. I'm not sure. The shadowdancer comes with talismanic tattoos which give her a save and so she can take other armour options but I think if you don't have mundane armour to start with, that is when armour options impact spell casting. Of course I could be making this all up... I sometimes wish I had a copy of the rulebook and army books at work. 8 hours of not knowing an answer can be really annoying 😀. It's why I'm glad we have many different time zones represented as it normally means one of us is near a book.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 6, 2017 11:55:54 GMT
As it says in the BRB. p 500: "Wizards cannot choose magic armour unless they have an option for 'normal' armour." And: "The only exception to this is when a Wizard has armour as part of his standard equipment or an option for 'normal' armour, such as light armour, or a shield."
The Talismanic Tattoo is a ward save, not an armour save. A Shadowdancer does not have any normal armour options, nor an exemption to the Magical Interference rule. Therefore, a Shadowdance who is also a Wizard cannot use magic armour.
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Post by knoffles on Sept 6, 2017 12:20:48 GMT
Cheers FvonSigmaringen I thought I remembered it correctly. I can now get on with some 'real' work this afternoon
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Post by mottdon on Sept 6, 2017 13:11:26 GMT
I'm not 100% sure as nowhere near the brb but I thought if a model doesn't come with armour already equipped (e.g. The HE loremaster) then giving the model any armour, negates their ability to cast spells. I did think about giving the bsb the crown and the blade but fvon's thread about why it wouldn't give the unit immunity to fear (below) put me off a bit. I do agree that a magic weapon of some sort is probably needed so at least someone has magical attacks. eefl.freeforums.net/thread/638/flaming-attacks-brb-69?page=3Okay, somehow I missed this. But this confuses me. If a unit that the character is in, fails, say a Terror test and would otherwise panic, does the character that causes Fear (due to the Shrieking Blade) not flee? So he's still tied up in combat while his unit leaves him behind? I suppose that would be a good way to protect your unit from being run down. Honestly, I'm not sure I'll even play it this way simply because that seriously complicates the game. Too much to keep track of. Much more simple to say, "This unit if immune to Fear because of X".
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 6, 2017 14:42:11 GMT
As quoted in the other thread, only "Units composed entirely of Fear- or Terror-causing models are immune to Terror and so do not take this test" (i.e. for Terror). If the unit fails the test and flees, any character in it (even if causing Terror himself) will flee as well.
BRB. p. 99: "Whilst a character is part of a unit, both he and the unit (including any other characters that have joined that unit) are treated as a single combined unit for all rules purposes, save for the exceptions listed here."
BRB p. 101 deals with the ways in which a character can leave the unit again. Basically, there are only two ways:
1. A character can charge out of a unit 2. A character can leave his unit during the Remaining Moves sub-phase by moving away from the unit before that unit makes its own move Neither applies when taking a Terror test. Indeed, it is specified: "For example, a character cannot leave if: His unit is fleeing"
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Post by mottdon on Sept 6, 2017 15:03:19 GMT
Well, shoot. That's really crappy. I suppose it still work the other way though? If a character with the Shrieking Blade is in a unit and the unit charges an enemy unit that does not cause Fear or Terror, then they would be subject to taking a Fear test? Or would it only be the models in base contact with the character? And taking that a bit further, what if the enemy unit he comes in contact with has characters in the front row in base contact with the bearer (no standard unit models)?
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