Wood Elves vs Orcs and Goblins 1500points 2017 July 10

strutsagget
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Wood Elves vs Orcs and Goblins 1500points 2017 July 10 Jul 12, 2017 12:47:45 GMT KevinC and mahbruck like this

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Post by strutsagget on Jul 12, 2017 12:47:45 GMT

This is my second game so did alot of movement errors.

My WE Armylist:

+ Lords +
Treeman Ancient [360pts]: Level 4 (Lore of Life)

+ Heroes +
Glade Captain [102pts]: Battle Standard, Hand Weapon, Shield

+ Core +
Eternal Guard [378pts]: Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer
. 29x Eternal Guard: 29x Shields

+ Special +
Sisters of the Thorn [140pts]: Musician, 5x Sisters of the Thorn
Tree Kin [135pts]: 3x Tree Kin
Wild Riders [160pts]: Musician, Standard Bearer
. 5x Wild Riders: 5x Shields

+ Rare +
Treeman [225pts]

Orcs not really sure but something like this:
30 Black orcs with BSB-General and Shaman
30 Goblins
1 Spider
6 Trolls
1 Catapult
5 wolfs

All images are start of turn.
We rolled 2 Dawn attack and i started deploying and started the game.

Setup and Turn 1

I rolled the sisters and tree kin to the left flank and the rest in the middle.
He rolled Catapult to his right flank and spider and goblins to his left flank and the rest to the middle.

WE
Vanguard sisters forward then wolves forward blocking vanguard of Wild Riders 12" rule.
I moved all units forward marching, not remembering if i vanguard the Wild Riders or dint think i would reach the Wolves but think I did some misstake here

Thones of Vines got dispelled but the sisters got of a Shied of Thornes that lasted all game.
No shooting.
OG
Wolfes and Spider went forward making sure i could not charge them but in the way.
All magic were dispelled.
Catapult shot the Ancient without wounding.

Side note, all LD test were passed this game. Animosity, Fears, Terror, Panic and so on.

Turn 2

WE
Sisters Charged the catapult.
Wild riders move out of arc for spiders charge.
The other forward in the middle.
Magic did nothing and probably missed how to use my dice, (should have used more on thrones and then big channelling turn...) shaman used dispel scroll flesh to stone.
Shield of Thornes to out two wound and the charge the rest of the the catapult.
Shooting missed.

OG
Moved Wolfes so the again blocked riders from charging spider.
Moved orcs backawrd to lower chances of charge.
Big magic turn with foot of gork took out 9 eternal guards with irresistible force(5 dices with 6 sixes turning up

) and rolled 8 on misscast table... Great Turn for the orcs.
From the Goblins a set of stranged goblins jumped out with spiked balls. But all just went forward without reaching a target.

Turn 3

WE
Wild riders charged the wolfs
Eternal guard charged the Orcs
Treelord failed charge on orcs a low dice roll 1 and 2 .
Treelord Ancient charged trolls and took 2 wounds from pesky goblins in the way.
Sisters lined up the get inte the fight next turn.
Magic set up thones of vines and regained a life on the ancient.
Close Combat the trolls took 2 wounds on a initiative test from Treelord. Trellord took more wounds and left on 1 wound.
Eternalguard managed to took out three orcs but lost 5 in the return. Orcs had som first turn +2 strength weapon.
WildRiders slaughtered the wolves.

OG
Spider charged the the Treelord that failed the charged getting 5 hits by the goblin in the way but then managed to wound all 5 wounds on the Treelord and took it out.
Trolls slaughtered the Ancient last life.
Orcs got some more Eternal guards.

At this point the time was late so I gave up as it looked like the charges from next turn wouldn't help me at all. Missplayed the sisters so they couldn't charge the Orcs (wanted them in the middle..., not sure what i thought )

---
Overall great learning experience. And fun, Learned about the strength 4/5 got bonus to lower Armour save

Learned how some wolves could be used to chaff?
Probably missed thing in the report.

Last Edit: Jul 12, 2017 13:37:15 GMT by strutsagget

My army threads;
Chaos Dwarfs: eefl.freeforums.net/thread/1020/evil-angry-dwarfs-project?page=5
Pointy ears: eefl.freeforums.net/thread/871/all-ears-pointy-de-project

frozenfood God Posts: 923	Wood Elves vs Orcs and Goblins 1500points 2017 July 10 Jul 12, 2017 13:32:32 GMT via mobile strutsagget likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by frozenfood on Jul 12, 2017 13:32:32 GMT Go treehuggers go!
	This food is so frozen, it started singing "Do you want to build a snowman" - Gordon Ramsbelly, Ogre Slaughtermaster

strutsagget God Posts: 4,212	Wood Elves vs Orcs and Goblins 1500points 2017 July 10 Jul 12, 2017 13:43:15 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by strutsagget on Jul 12, 2017 13:43:15 GMT I never found any rules about this but can the Treelords form a unit together? Or are they not allowed as monsters? Benefit from Lore of Life Magic from the Ancient.
	My army threads; Chaos Dwarfs: eefl.freeforums.net/thread/1020/evil-angry-dwarfs-project?page=5 Pointy ears: eefl.freeforums.net/thread/871/all-ears-pointy-de-project

mottdon
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Wood Elves vs Orcs and Goblins 1500points 2017 July 10 Jul 12, 2017 14:09:37 GMT

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Post by mottdon on Jul 12, 2017 14:09:37 GMT

I don't have my book in front of me, but I don't think that monsters can join units. Also, in the points cost section in the back of your army book, each unit will have a "Unit Size" allotment right under the name. That's also a place I'd check as well.

My armies: Empire, Dwarfs, High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Skaven, Tomb Kings, Ogre Kingdoms, Orcs and Goblins, and Skitarii (40K).

frozenfood God Posts: 923	Wood Elves vs Orcs and Goblins 1500points 2017 July 10 Jul 12, 2017 14:56:07 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by frozenfood on Jul 12, 2017 14:56:07 GMT Aah. They lost in the end. As long as you have fun!
	This food is so frozen, it started singing "Do you want to build a snowman" - Gordon Ramsbelly, Ogre Slaughtermaster

strutsagget God Posts: 4,212	Wood Elves vs Orcs and Goblins 1500points 2017 July 10 Jul 12, 2017 15:18:05 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by strutsagget on Jul 12, 2017 15:18:05 GMT I am also working on to get some better custom woods to the table! Got most of the stuff I need to make two/three woods. And then helping out with more and better scenery.
	My army threads; Chaos Dwarfs: eefl.freeforums.net/thread/1020/evil-angry-dwarfs-project?page=5 Pointy ears: eefl.freeforums.net/thread/871/all-ears-pointy-de-project

strutsagget
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Wood Elves vs Orcs and Goblins 1500points 2017 July 10 Jul 12, 2017 15:34:28 GMT

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Post by strutsagget on Jul 12, 2017 15:34:28 GMT

Jul 12, 2017 14:09:37 GMT mottdon said:

I don't have my book in front of me, but I don't think that monsters can join units. Also, in the points cost section in the back of your army book, each unit will have a "Unit Size" allotment right under the name. That's also a place I'd check as well.

The Lord doesn't have anything but the treeman have fixed 1.

Do that mean that the Ancient can join units but the normal treeman cant?

My army threads;
Chaos Dwarfs: eefl.freeforums.net/thread/1020/evil-angry-dwarfs-project?page=5
Pointy ears: eefl.freeforums.net/thread/871/all-ears-pointy-de-project

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Wood Elves vs Orcs and Goblins 1500points 2017 July 10 Jul 12, 2017 16:18:17 GMT

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Post by mottdon on Jul 12, 2017 16:18:17 GMT

I must admit that it's been a while since I've come across something like this, but I THINK that a character with a different size base CAN join a unit but he can still be singled out as far as shooting is concerned and doesn't benefit from a "Look Out Sir!" roll. The point would be that the character could give some sort of benefit to the unit (such as MR) or if you wanted to ensure that your character was in the same combat as the unit.

But if the Treeman rules has it stated that he cannot join units (because he's a monster), then the Ancient cannot join with the Treeman even if the Ancient could join a standard unit as a character.

That's my interpretation from what I recall. I'll try to double-check tonight after I get off work.

My armies: Empire, Dwarfs, High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Skaven, Tomb Kings, Ogre Kingdoms, Orcs and Goblins, and Skitarii (40K).

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Wood Elves vs Orcs and Goblins 1500points 2017 July 10 Jul 12, 2017 16:25:37 GMT mahbruck likes this

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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2017 16:25:37 GMT

Pretty sure there's a caveat in the main rules that monsters cannot join units or be joined by characters. So if your treeman has monster under his profile anywhere, even if he's a character he cannot join units. He also cannot be joined by other characters in the army.

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Wood Elves vs Orcs and Goblins 1500points 2017 July 10 Jul 12, 2017 16:33:52 GMT

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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2017 16:33:52 GMT

Jul 12, 2017 16:18:17 GMT mottdon said:

I must admit that it's been a while since I've come across something like this, but I THINK that a character with a different size base CAN join a unit but he can still be singled out as far as shooting is concerned and doesn't benefit from a "Look Out Sir!" roll. The point would be that the character could give some sort of benefit to the unit (such as MR) or if you wanted to ensure that your character was in the same combat as the unit.

But if the Treeman rules has it stated that he cannot join units (because he's a monster), then the Ancient cannot join with the Treeman even if the Ancient could join a standard unit as a character.

That's my interpretation from what I recall. I'll try to double-check tonight after I get off work.

Also: you're right about the different size base thing, you are just forced to place the character on the side of the unit "outside of formation" essentially in order for him to be considered as joined.

I encounter this with my characters on Daemonic Mounts when joining cavalry: 50x75 bases don't mesh with 25x50 bases.

He's completely protected from BS shooting unless there are less than 5 RnF models in the unit, and he gets a LoS! against template warmachines unless he's a different unit type than the unit he's joined to.

Last Edit: Jul 12, 2017 16:35:34 GMT by Deleted

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Wood Elves vs Orcs and Goblins 1500points 2017 July 10 Jul 12, 2017 16:42:39 GMT

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Post by mottdon on Jul 12, 2017 16:42:39 GMT

Really? I thought I remembered that they could be singled out because they were larger and more visible? It's been forever since I encountered this and I usually don't try combining my Monstrous characters with units. They are almost always on a solo mission, flying up behind enemy lines, taking out chaff or hiding out casting spells. Lol. You've definitely peaked my interest! I can't wait to look the rules up!

My armies: Empire, Dwarfs, High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Skaven, Tomb Kings, Ogre Kingdoms, Orcs and Goblins, and Skitarii (40K).

strutsagget
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Wood Elves vs Orcs and Goblins 1500points 2017 July 10 Jul 12, 2017 16:51:28 GMT mahbruck likes this

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Post by strutsagget on Jul 12, 2017 16:51:28 GMT

Jul 12, 2017 16:42:39 GMT mottdon said:

Really? I thought I remembered that they could be singled out because they were larger and more visible? It's been forever since I encountered this and I usually don't try combining my Monstrous characters with units. They are almost always on a solo mission, flying up behind enemy lines, taking out chaff or hiding out casting spells. Lol. You've definitely peaked my interest! I can't wait to look the rules up!

They are both monsters. So guess none of them(Treeman, Treeman Ancient) can join units.

From the rulebook:

“CHARACTERS AND UNITS

WHAT UNIT CAN I JOIN?
Most characters are allowed to join certain types of unit over the course of the battle. A character is normally permitted to join units of infantry, beasts, cavalry, monstrous infantry, monstrous beasts or monstrous cavalry. Characters can also join other characters belonging to one the troop types listed above, thus forming an impromptu unit entirely made of characters.

Unless otherwise stated, a character cannot join a unit of monsters (too much danger of being stood on), a unit of flyers (too many ill-disciplined wings buffeting the sky), a unit of chariots (too much danger of being run over), a unit of swarms (too much chance of being eaten) or a war machine (too much danger of being obliterated). Similarly, a character that is itself a monster, or riding a monster or a chariot cannot join other units – it’s just too dangerous for the members of the unit in question. A character cannot join a unit that is already engaged in close combat or is fleeing.

“JOINING A UNIT
To join a unit a character must move into base contact with it during the Movement phase. Once a character has joined a unit in this way, neither character nor unit can move further, so it’s a good idea to plan your moves in the correct order.

As a unit can move only before the character joins, it’s better to move the unit first and then have the character move to join it. A unit which has been joined by a character in the Movement phase only counts as having moved if it has itself moved, not if a character has moved to join it.”

“POSITION IN THE UNIT
When characters join a unit, they are placed in the front rank (regardless of distance). Rank-and-file models, except for the command group that must remain in the front rank, are moved to the back ranks to make room for the characters. If there is no more room in the front rank, some characters will have to go in the second rank.

SPELLS
When a character joins a unit that is under the effect of a spell that affects the entire unit, the character only benefits or suffers from the effects of the spell whilst he remains in the unit. Similarly, if a character is the subject of a spell that is capable of affecting a unit, the effect will also apply to any unit he joins, for as long as he remains part of it, and the spell lasts.”

“CHARACTERS IN FLEEING UNITS
If the character has joined a unit and this later flees, he will count towards working out if the unit is still at or above 25% of its initial numbers for the purposes of Rally tests (see the Compulsory Moves section in the Movement chapter).

DIFFERENT-SIZED BASES
Most of the time, a character is mounted on the same size of base as the unit he decides to join. In this case, the character can simply be added to the front rank, displacing another model as described earlier. Naturally, this gets a little more involved if the character has a different-sized base to the members of the unit. Here we have to use a little common sense to make everything work.

If a character’s base is larger than one model, but has exactly the same size area (or ‘footprint’) as two or more models, simply displace those models to the back rank and position the character in their place.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “WARHAMMER RULEBOOK.” iBooks.

Last Edit: Jul 12, 2017 16:56:28 GMT by strutsagget

My army threads;
Chaos Dwarfs: eefl.freeforums.net/thread/1020/evil-angry-dwarfs-project?page=5
Pointy ears: eefl.freeforums.net/thread/871/all-ears-pointy-de-project

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Wood Elves vs Orcs and Goblins 1500points 2017 July 10 Jul 12, 2017 17:01:32 GMT

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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2017 17:01:32 GMT

I could be wrong. It's been a while and I could be confusing this with 9th Age, where I KNOW the character counts in all respect as part of the unit; he just doesn't count for the purposes of ranks.

The protection just comes as part of the normal character protection when joined to units, i.e. LoS! when unit types are similar and protection from BS shooting.

Here's how ninth age V 1.0.0 (the closest thing it ever was to 8th edition) handled it:

"Distributing hits at combined units

When an Attack hits a combined unit, there are two possibilities for distributing hits:

Characters are of the same Troop Type and- There are 5 or more R&F models in the unit
All hits are distributed onto R&F models, Characters cannot suffer any hits. When a Template hits a Character in a unit, the hit is transferred to a R&F model.

Characters are of a different Troop Type or- There are 4 or less R&F models in the unit
The player making the attack distributes hits onto R&F models and Characters. Hits must be distributed as equally as possible, meaning that no model can take a second hit until all models have taken a single hit, and so on. When a Template hits a Character in a unit, the Character suffers the hit as normal."

Seeing as we're talking about 8th I would think that you would replace "characters can't be hit by templates" with "characters of the same unit type receive a 2+ LoS! roll.

And if the character is of a different unit type than the unit it's in then templates hit it normally, but it still can't be hit by normal BS fire unless the unit is 4 models or less.

I don't have my 8th rulebook handy as I'm at work, but this is the best case I can make from memory and with what I have ATM.

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Wood Elves vs Orcs and Goblins 1500points 2017 July 10 Jul 12, 2017 17:16:19 GMT

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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2017 17:16:19 GMT

Alright I found a crappy photocopied 8th rulebook online and I was PARTIALLY right:

A character that's a different unit type than the unit he's in is NOT safe from BS shooting, the controlling player allocates the hits, and every model in the unit must be hit once before someone is hit twice, etc...

So if the unit is sufficiently large then the character is safe from BS shooting. He's NOT safe from templates however. Templates will hit whoever is under them.

If a character is the same unit type as the unit he's in then he gets a LoS! against templates, and cannot be hit by BS shooting; until the unit drops to fewer than 5 RnF models.

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Wood Elves vs Orcs and Goblins 1500points 2017 July 10 Jul 12, 2017 18:07:44 GMT

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Post by mottdon on Jul 12, 2017 18:07:44 GMT

strutsagget : Yeah, I looked that info up over my lunch break at my house. Both are classified as "Monster" unit types and the BRB (on page 85) states that Monsters cannot join units. Their just too big and do their own thing.

@ryryak : Makes sense I suppose. That's why you don't see more characters mounted on barded steeds or some such in units of infantry. If they were able to gain all the protection from a horde as well as gain the extra armor and saves from stomps, then there would never be a character on foot. Ever. But since they can be singled out with shooting (which makes sense, they stand out among the rest) there suddenly becomes a real advantage to foot-slogging it with the other infantry.

This is definitely one of those areas which becomes rather foggy as to what is acceptable or not.

Last Edit: Jul 12, 2017 18:08:50 GMT by mottdon

My armies: Empire, Dwarfs, High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Skaven, Tomb Kings, Ogre Kingdoms, Orcs and Goblins, and Skitarii (40K).

Post by strutsagget on Jul 12, 2017 12:47:45 GMT

Post by frozenfood on Jul 12, 2017 13:32:32 GMT

Post by strutsagget on Jul 12, 2017 13:43:15 GMT

Post by mottdon on Jul 12, 2017 14:09:37 GMT

Post by frozenfood on Jul 12, 2017 14:56:07 GMT

Post by strutsagget on Jul 12, 2017 15:18:05 GMT

Post by strutsagget on Jul 12, 2017 15:34:28 GMT

Post by mottdon on Jul 12, 2017 16:18:17 GMT

Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2017 16:25:37 GMT

Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2017 16:33:52 GMT

Post by mottdon on Jul 12, 2017 16:42:39 GMT

Post by strutsagget on Jul 12, 2017 16:51:28 GMT

Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2017 17:01:32 GMT

Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2017 17:16:19 GMT

Post by mottdon on Jul 12, 2017 18:07:44 GMT