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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 18:02:46 GMT
Wait...WHAT?!? 3++ AND can't be wounded on a 1 or 2?!? So.......he's impossible to kill??? yeah he's pretty defensive; although he's not that killy either: 5 attacks, WS9, S5. But he does ignore armor saves. He can unleash Uzhul, the daemon in his sword and get 10 attacks, but if he does that any 1's hit either himself or the unit he's in. And I don't think those 1's can be rerolled either. But I'm running into the issue where I don't have enough wargear/gifts to properly equip characters (the whole duplicate thing, items that provide ward saves in particular are in high demand). I think that named characters will be a way to address this.
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Post by mottdon on Dec 20, 2017 20:12:59 GMT
So you have to manage to wound him (needing a 4 or 5 to hit and then a 5 or 6 to wound, more than likely) then he gets a 3++ ward save as well as an armor save of 2+ (1+?) That's insane. I wish Karl Franz was better able to compete with that. It'd be an awesome showdown.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 21:09:28 GMT
Eventually that will happen. My empire opponent runs Karl Franz. It's only natural that the two should square up against each other...
I just have to find that darn model
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 18:04:40 GMT
I also just remembered: Archaon also has ALL the Chaos marks. Which means he has the MoN. So in addition to being WS9 you're also -1 to hit him I REALLY need to find that damn model.
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Post by mottdon on Dec 21, 2017 21:58:35 GMT
Cheese.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Dec 22, 2017 2:56:25 GMT
So you have to manage to wound him (needing a 4 or 5 to hit and then a 5 or 6 to wound, more than likely) then he gets a 3++ ward save as well as an armor save of 2+ (1+?) That's insane. I wish Karl Franz was better able to compete with that. It'd be an awesome showdown. Local GW actually did a head to head (Empire book on Griffin rules for Karl Franz) and Karl Franz actually won! It was pretty funny, basically a 2 on 1 with Karl allying with Archaons sword to try and gib him. Archaon stabbed himself something like 5 times, was hilarious. Ghal Maraz finished him off.
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5000 WoC
Dec 22, 2017 3:51:32 GMT
via mobile
Post by mottdon on Dec 22, 2017 3:51:32 GMT
Lol, if that happened 5 times out of 10, then I'd say it was a fair fight, but c'mon....
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Post by grandmasterwang on Dec 22, 2017 15:37:26 GMT
Yeah, it was definitely an anomaly. Archaon is a beast.
I've actually put Kholek Suneater vs Archaon head to head (550 points vs 650 if I recall) giving Kholek 2 zaps roughly due to spacing on the way in. I think Kholek's best result was scoring 3 wounds. One of them was a flawless victory for Archaon. Other one I think Kholek got in maybe 2 wounds before being brutalised.
That ridiculous Weaponskill, mark of Nurgle + Ward save combo is brutal to get past..... even for a beast like Kholek.
Kholek on average with his 8 wounds lasted 2 combat rounds. In the flawless victory, pretty sure Archaon and Dorgar took him out in 1 round.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Dec 22, 2017 15:39:31 GMT
I think I've done the Kholek vs Archaon thing 4 times. Kholek Suneater was alas beaten every time.
It's one of the reasons I remember the Karl Franz shaming of Archaon fondly.
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Post by mottdon on Dec 22, 2017 16:56:03 GMT
Yeah, that's rather ridiculous. Now, I can see someone taking an unnamed character and custom building him specifically to combat Archaon (like a Vampire, Oldblood, or something), but really how many named characters can go toe-to-toe with him (with 50/50 results)? I really can't think of one. Not Malekith, not Karl Franz, not Tyrion,...Nagash? I'm not sure.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 17:58:27 GMT
Look what I found! Took me about 20 minutes in the storage to find it. It was in some random box no idea how it got there. It's good old fashioned metal! I'm pretty sure I've had this model in the box for around 15 years. Also found these guys! I need a few more units of these for my large army; need those outriders/warmachine hunters!
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Post by strutsagget on Dec 22, 2017 18:40:51 GMT
@ryryak I like that dogar/archaon model. Have the same but might be resin primed up.
Head and horns/helmet is a little bit small.
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Post by mottdon on Dec 22, 2017 19:02:56 GMT
Awesome! Glad you found it! Now, I expect you to make his eyes and sword glow just like that...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 21:50:13 GMT
Here's a 1st draft list for my 10,000 point game:
GRAND ARMY OF THE EVERCHOSEN
Lords: Chaos Lord (general) w/ MoN, Hellfire Sword, Helm of Many Eyes, Soul Feeder, shield Chaos Lord w/ MoK, Giant blade, Talisman of Endurance, ironcurse icon, shield, juggernaught Daemon Prince w/ MoN, Charmed Shield, Dragonbane Gem, other tricksters shard, flaming breath, scaled skin, flight, chaos armor Great Bray Shaman w/ lvl4, MoN, Fencers Blades, Jagged Dagger, Talisman of Preservation Doombull w/ sword of swift slaying, ramhorn helm, heavy armor, dawnstone, gnarled hide, shield Grey Seer w/ earthing rod, obsidian lodestone
Heroes: Throgg the Troll King Exalted Hero (bsb) w/ MoT, Armor of Destiny, Third Eye of Tzeentch, Daemonic Mount Chaos Sorderer w/ dispel scroll
Core: 18 Chaos Trolls 30 Chaos Warriors w/ MoT, shields, full command, blasted standard 18 Chaos Warriors w/ MoK, shields, ahw, full command 50 Gors w/ MoN, ahw, full command 50 Marauders w/ Mon, great weapons, full command Chaos Chariot w/ MoN Chaos Chariot w/ MoN Chaos Chariot w/ MoN 5 ungor raiders w/ musician 5 ungor raiders w/ musician 5 ungor raiders w/ musician 5 ungor raiders w/ musician 5 ungor raiders 5 Marauder Horsemen w/ spears, shields, musician 5 Marauder Horsemen w/ spears, shields, musician 5 Chaos Warhounds 5 Chaos Warhounds 5 Chaos Warhounds 5 Chaos Warhounds 50 Clanrats w/ shields, full command
Special: 7 Chaos Knights w/ MoN, ensorscelled weapons, full command Chimera w/ regeneration, flaming breath 20 Chosen w/ MoN, halberds, shields, full command Chaos Warshrine w/ MoT Chaos Warshrine w/ MoT Razorgor Razorgor Razorgor Razorgor Razorgor 6 Dragon Ogres w/ great weapons, shartaak
Rare: Hell Pit Abomination Hellcannon Hellcannon 9 Skullcrushers w/ ensorcelled weapons, full command, razor standard Warp Lightning Cannon
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 22:11:04 GMT
Ungor raiders will provide hard cover/screening for the infantry units. Dogs will do the same thing for the cavalry. Marauder horse will go after warmachines hopefully exploiting any gaps in the line. Hellcannons will create gaps in the line. razorgors will go after enemy chaff. knights will go after solo models (warwagons, hurricanums, etc). monsters will smash. skullcrushers will (hopefully) destroy a flank and then proceed to turn their attentions to the center of the enemy lines. Daemon Prince will tie up an enemy unit. Doombull will tie up an enemy unit. Trolls will provide a cannon screen for the DP, Doombull, and anything else I don't want to get hit. chariots are distraction carnifexes hopefully helping my opponent to mess up his target priority with his cannons. Warp Lightning Cannon will pick on targets of opportunity. I might be able to find points for a second one. I'll have to put it together soon anyway as it's next in the painting queue. Clanrats are a bunker for the grey seer.
Chaos Lords are there to provide what their units lack: the Khorne provides S8 armor piercing attacks for anything high T/ armor save; the Nurgle Lord does it all with that sword; creates explosions for dealing with hordes, and causes multiwounds for characters and monsters. I thought it would be fun to play to Lords strengths: all offense, and take a magic weapon that only lord level characters can.
Magic will most likely be lore of shadows on the great bray, and ruin for the grey seer. I'll most likely drop the chaos sorcerer scroll caddy and take a warlock engineer scroll caddy instead and do something with those points saved. Winds will be 2D6 so I don't dare overinvest in magic. The only thing I'm worried about is board presence/coverage.
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