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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 17:25:22 GMT
I've got a 5000 point game planned for January 2nd with my new buddy.
Here's the list I came up with:
Lords: Chaos Lord w: MoT, Great Weapon, Disc, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Crown of Command, GENERAL [343] Daemon Prince w/MoN, Flight, Chaos Armor, Scaly Skin, lvl4 wizard (Lore of Nurgle), Sword of Striking, Charmed Shield, Chaos Familiar, Flaming Breath, Dragonbane gem, Soul Feeder [555]
Heroes: Throgg the Troll King [195] Exalted Hero w/MoK, Jugernaught, Shield, Sword of Might, Ironcurse Icon, Dawnstone, BATTLE STANDARD BEARER [268] Exalted Hero w/MoT, Barded Daemonic Steed, Armor of Destiny, Third Eye of Tzeentch, Shield [239] Chaos Sorcerer w/Dispel Scroll, lvl 2 upgrade, (Lore of Shadow)
Core: 6 Chaos Trolls [210] 6 Chaos Trolls [210] 6 Chaos Trolls [210] 5 Chaos Hounds [30] 5 Chaos Hounds [30] 5 Chaos Hounds [30] 5 Chaos Hounds [30] 5 Marauder Horsemen w/shields, spears, musician [90] 5 Marauder Horsemen w/shields, spears, musician [90] 30 Chaos Warriors w/MoT, shields, blasted standard, full command [565]
Special: 6 Dragon Ogres w/great weapons, champion [418] Chimera w/regeneration, flaming breath [275]
Rare: 7 skullcrushers w/full command, ensorcelled weapons, razor standard [621] Hellcannon [210] Hellcannon [210]
Thoughts? It's 5000 points, I'm unsure what I'm up against it could be either Tomb Kings, Empire, Ogres, or Lizardmen.
I don't feel so bad taking the Hortense Chaos Lord, the unkillable Daemon Prince AND the unkillable hero because of the size of the game; their individual contributions won't matter as much in the grand scheme of things. I fully expect to go up against 4-5 cannons, and 2-3 helblasters so I feel that it's okay to counter with my own nastiness. I've got 7 skullcrushers because they're fun and I need at least one turn on LoS! for my bsb who will ride with them. The bsb doesn't have a ward save but he can reroll his armor save so I'm hoping that doesn't bite me but if it does...oh well.
Can I just say I'm excited to have an opponent who loves big games as much as I do? His first foray back into 8th edition after 3 years and he wants to play 5k points; and I suspect this is a small game for him.
I may have to paint up all my chariots and finish my halberd warriors so we can play even larger games in the future!
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Post by Naitsabes on Dec 5, 2017 17:58:19 GMT
I think you should feel bad for bringing three nigh unkillable things If you haven't played this guy before, I would err on the side of fluffiness. You don't want to scare him away. Rest of the list looks fine. Maybe combine the trolls into 12(with throgg)+6? At this point level there should be units that will just blow through 6 and throgg.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 18:47:15 GMT
I agree!
The problem is I don't have a lot of models that are capable warmachine hunters. I NEED more marauder horsemen. The characters are there to deal primarily with warmachines and threats to the trolls/drogres/warriors/skullcrushers. Those units will be doing most of the work/heavy lifting to grind through the units. The Tzeentch hero on Daemonic Mount I'm really only bringing because I haven't fielded the Varanguard model I painted a while ago in an actual game yet; which is a shame. The Chaos Lord and the Daemon Prince fly and combined with the Chimera are the ONLY flying units in the entire army; I'm loathe to trade them out because I need that flexibility - to be able to jump over enemy units will be vital I think. I initially had a Chaos Sorcerer Lord in there but had to drop him due to points and make the DP the sorcerer instead. The DP was initially supposed to just be a basic DP but he got all the defensive kit once he became my sole lvl4; he NEEDS to survive.
Those are my justifications anyway. I'm happy to bounce ideas off of everyone as far as ways to make the character section LESS top heavy whilst maintaining the disc and flying DP. I NEED the Lord because if I include a DP then he HAS to be the general. My ideal loadout would be a Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Disc as my general and a basic DP; but the DP has a higher LD than the Sorcerer Lord so HAS to be the general. I don't like the idea of a basic DP being the general without all the defensive kit to protect him. Also bear in mind at this point level it's entirely possible that the DP would be eating 4 cannonballs first turn of the game (it's what I would do anyway).
Agree about the trolls though; I'll probably combine them and do something like 12/6.
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Post by mottdon on Dec 5, 2017 18:49:49 GMT
Or even better, just take one Unkillable character. Nothing else. And go kill one unit of Chaff....that is, if you don't really want him as a friend. Lol!
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Post by Naitsabes on Dec 5, 2017 22:03:05 GMT
for war machine hunting you could think outside the box and bring Wulfrik and some (*gasp*) marauder foot. and, there is always shooting the hell cannons at his war machines.
Certainly, what you have is a very efficient character setup. So, you are bringing a gun. Question though, is it a gun fight or does the other guy only bring a pillow? And, if you do tone it down, would you mind being the guy with the pillow and getting shot at?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 22:32:47 GMT
I don't have Wulfrik unfortunately I've never been a fan of relying on outflanking for that anyway. It's too random where and when you show up. It's usually turn 3-4 before that unit is in combat. But I'll make some concessions and take out the DP for a sorcerer lord instead; tone down the skullcrushers and make the bsb a tzeentch one on a daemonic mount. Use the points to add some more infantry to the list; possibly a unit of chosen. It's not that I want to crush the guy or anything, I just genuinely enjoy using these units as it's exciting to try and see if I'm able to get these units in combat where and when I want them. I don't enjoy the "slog up the table and charge what's immediately in front of me" approach to an entire army; that's for the PBI to do. In a nutshell the utility and maneuverablity that these units bring to the army is why I like them so much.
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5000 WoC
Dec 6, 2017 17:17:12 GMT
via mobile
Post by knoffles on Dec 6, 2017 17:17:12 GMT
Perhaps the best thing to do is just clarify with him what he expects, or what he is looking for in the game. Does is want a very competative list or is he a fluff player, or doesnβt he mind. It might save resentment later π.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 16:56:44 GMT
So I talked to my opponent and he's bringing an Empire list. He'll have lots of infantry, steam tanks, cannons, luminark, war altar, etc...and demigryphs have all been mentioned. Oh and it will all be led by Karl Franz himself.
Here is list 2:
Lords: Chaos Sorcerer Lord w/MoT, Disc, lvl4 upgrade, (lore of metal), Talisman of Preservation, Ogre Blade, Enchanted Shield, Chaos Familiar, Third Eye of Tzeentch
Heroes: Exalted Hero w/MoT, Daemonic Mount, Armor of Destiny, Battle standard bearer, Scaled Skin, shield, great weapon Exalted Hero w/MoT, shield, sword of might, talisman of endurance, burning body Exalted Hero w/MoT, shield, sword of swiftness, dragonhelm, talisman of protection, poisonous slime Chaos Sorcerer w/MoT, lvl2 upgrade (lore of metal), sword of battle, charmed shield, dispel scroll Chaos Sorcerer w/lvl2 upgrade (lore of shadow), helm of many eyes, power stone, ironcurse icon
Core: 30 Chaos Warriors w/MoT, shield, full command, standard of discipline 18 Chaos Warriors w/MoT, two hand weapons, full command 50 Chaos Marauders w/MoT, full command, great weapons 5 Warhounds 5 Warhounds 5 Warhounds 5 Warhounds 5 Marauder Horsemen w/ spear, shield, musician 5 Marauder Horsemen w/ spear, shield, musician
Special: 20 Chosen w/MoT, full command, halberds, banner of eternal flame Warshrine w/MoT Warshrine w/MoT 7 Chaos Knights w/MoT, full command
Rare: Chaos Giant w/MoT Hellcannon Hellcannon
Thoughts?
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Post by Naitsabes on Dec 7, 2017 17:48:13 GMT
see, now that is a proper pillow!
I think a big concern right now is leadership tests. Tzeentch is really hurting there. Since your general won't be in a unit with the SoDiscipline bonus, it'll be a struggle. It would be a shame to have the chosen run after failing a Ld8 test just because a unit of dogs died. At the very least, find the five points to give the poor knights the Gleaming Pennant. What if you upgraded whichever exalted will go into the warriors to an old-fashioned foot chaos lord (but keep the magic items as is)? That'll make him (and his bubble) Ld10. It'll cost you ~100pts. not sure what to drop, maybe a warshrine?
Tzeentch is my favorite, thumbs up for this list.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 17:53:44 GMT
I could do that. Drop a warshrine and upgrade a hero to a lord; probably change up some magic items; with the threat of a stank or two and demigryphs having the giant blade in a unit somewhere couldn't go wrong. I'm trying to make sure that there's a source of S5+ in every unit so the exalted heroes are going in both units of warriors; the sorcs will go in the chosen and marauders.
I'm pretty sure though that the giant will just die. I don't have a lot of good targets for cannons (well, my hellcannons really and MAYBE the shrines) so I fully expect him to be dead turn 1.
EDIT: Maybe I should drop what I'm doing at the moment and focus on my halberd warriors that have been an ongoing on again off again project for the last couple years. 30 halberd warriors could really compliment this list well.
And yes I decided to go mono tzeentch, I've always been a devotee of Tzeentch and that's never going to change. I'm contemplating going all in on the chaos and picking up daemons and forgetting everything else. Especially if large games are going to be the name of the game from now on. Grand Chaos Alliances for the win!
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Post by Naitsabes on Dec 7, 2017 18:04:08 GMT
I just realize you could make an Exalted your general and benefit from the SoDiscipline that way if you don't want the lord. and yes, he should be counter-battery firing at your hell cannons. so, roll well for wards and ablative dwarfs there and your giant just might make it to turn two
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 18:19:48 GMT
There's no bigger middle finger than having a cannon kill a single dwarf
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Post by grandmasterwang on Dec 8, 2017 11:42:41 GMT
So I talked to my opponent and he's bringing an Empire list. He'll have lots of infantry, steam tanks, cannons, luminark, war altar, etc...and demigryphs have all been mentioned. Oh and it will all be led by Karl Franz himself. Here is list 2: Lords: Chaos Sorcerer Lord w/MoT, Disc, lvl4 upgrade, (lore of metal), Talisman of Preservation, Ogre Blade, Enchanted Shield, Chaos Familiar, Third Eye of Tzeentch Heroes: Exalted Hero w/MoT, Daemonic Mount, Armor of Destiny, Battle standard bearer, Scaled Skin, shield, great weapon Exalted Hero w/MoT, shield, sword of might, talisman of endurance, burning body Exalted Hero w/MoT, shield, sword of swiftness, dragonhelm, talisman of protection, poisonous slime Chaos Sorcerer w/MoT, lvl2 upgrade (lore of metal), sword of battle, charmed shield, dispel scroll Chaos Sorcerer w/lvl2 upgrade (lore of shadow), helm of many eyes, power stone, ironcurse icon Core: 30 Chaos Warriors w/MoT, shield, full command, standard of discipline 18 Chaos Warriors w/MoT, two hand weapons, full command 50 Chaos Marauders w/MoT, full command, great weapons 5 Warhounds 5 Warhounds 5 Warhounds 5 Warhounds 5 Marauder Horsemen w/ spear, shield, musician 5 Marauder Horsemen w/ spear, shield, musician Special: 20 Chosen w/MoT, full command, halberds, banner of eternal flame Warshrine w/MoT Warshrine w/MoT 7 Chaos Knights w/MoT, full command Rare: Chaos Giant w/MoT Hellcannon Hellcannon Thoughts? I really like that as it's pure Tzeentch. Your first list was thematically terrible π You could have salvaged it by adding a Slaanesh hero though to tick all 4 God's boxes. That Skullcrushers unit...ooof Regarding his Empire list.. which Karl Franz is he bringing? It makes a huge difference. If it's the End Times version go back to your first list lol. I actually think both of your lists would be fun to play. Glad you found an opponent. Mega games are awesome. In my experience the 'unkillable' stuff usually ends up getting somehow killed in these mega battles....often in amusing and embarassing ways.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Dec 8, 2017 11:45:50 GMT
There's no bigger middle finger than having a cannon kill a single dwarf What about when it rolls a '1' and fails to even kill that single dwarf? π
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 17:12:39 GMT
I really like that as it's pure Tzeentch. Your first list was thematically terrible π You could have salvaged it by adding a Slaanesh hero though to tick all 4 God's boxes. That Skullcrushers unit...ooof Regarding his Empire list.. which Karl Franz is he bringing? It makes a huge difference. If it's the End Times version go back to your first list lol. I actually think both of your lists would be fun to play. Glad you found an opponent. Mega games are awesome. In my experience the 'unkillable' stuff usually ends up getting somehow killed in these mega battles....often in amusing and embarassing ways. I thought about putting the mark on the horsemen. I don't have any Slaaneshi units, I've never been a fan of Slaanesh but I'm thinking it would be fun to theme a fast cav force around a small Slaanesh warband for these larger games. I'm thinking 10ish units of Marauder horsemen/Hellstriders with a variety of different weapons with a boobsnake riding hero and some forsaken, could call it the warband of that particular Slaaneshi hero. And I love Skullcrushers, I make no apologies for owning 10
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