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Post by magicjuggler on Feb 23, 2018 21:47:55 GMT
They're an entire unit with Random Movement and they have Immune to Psychology, and they're Skirmishers. However, they can break due to Combat Resolution. Several problems come up though:
Skirmishers "contract" in place around a centermost model whenever they take a non-flee Charge! reaction, or they declare a charge. However, since they have Random Movement, they RAW never actually declare a charge but start a melee if they "clip" a unit that they engage. Do they actually contract into fighting rank-and-file, since RAW they entered melee without reacting or declaring a charge?
However, the rules then state that you resolve as per the "normal rules for resolving a charge." If this is the case, did the game just break or is the "correct" answer to ignore the actual rules and "contract around the centermost model in the front" and try to contract around the model that made contact before going for "closing the door"?
Second, when a unit rallies, it immediately reforms (this is mandatory) but is not allowed to perform any other actions during its turn (unless the unit has a special rule letting it act after rallying; ex. Fast Cavalry or Skarsnik's Trisky Traps); however, Random Movement states that the unit HAS to make a compulsory move.
In other words, they MUST move but cannot move.
Aside from that, there is no other RAW that states that they cannot reform.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 24, 2018 0:00:23 GMT
As you say, the first question does not seem specifically covered by any rule. However, the Random Movement sequence (BRB p. 74) is: - 1. Pivot the centre of the Random Mover to face the direction in which you wish it to travel.
2. Roll the dice shown in the model's profile.
3. Measure the distance in a straight line to see whether you come into contact with an enemy (before actually moving!)
3.a If the move is found to take the unit into contact with an enemy this counts as charging, and this is resolved using the normal rules for charges and using the distance rolled as its charge range, i.e. move in a straight line with one free wheel of 90° to get into contact with the enemy, and then either you or the enemy closes the door. During this charge, you can also move to within 1" of other units.
3.b If no charge is made, move the model directly forwards a number of inches equal to the total rolled by the dice. If the random move brings the unit to within 1" of a friendly unit or impassable terrain, it stops immediately and cannot move further during that Movement phase.
So, the most logical solution would be to contract the unit immediately after the move is found to take the unit into contact with an enemy, and just before actually moving the unit. Regarding the second question, I would argue that this is covered by the rules: - BRB p. 25: Aside from fleeing troops, units that are forced to move in the Compulsory Moves sub-phase otherwise follow the normal movement rules, unless clearly stated.
Therefore, unless the rules of the Random Mover do clearly state that they override the rally rules, they do not. In fact, that sentence is rather superfluous, because one of the most basic principles of the game is that, unless specifically stated otherwise, normal rules apply. |
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Post by magicjuggler on Feb 25, 2018 16:58:19 GMT
The issue is that models with Random Move cannot declare charges and are always moved in the Compulsory Moves subphase.
Emphasis on "always."
I am trying to avoid an extreme case of rule-lawyering and "Is a Maneuver considered a Move", because a rallying unit must always reform, and when a Random Movement unit moves, it pivots then moves a random distance. Gork (though maybe not Mork) knows I don't want to win a game by sniping an enemy Warmachine because I reformed 3d6x2 and slingshoot myself to hunt a Warmachine, only to subsequently "restrain" pursuit and automagically tie down the rest of my opponent's warmachines in a Squig-trap.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 25, 2018 17:23:09 GMT
Do not forget that Rallying happens precisely in the Compulsory Moves sub-phase, and the Rally rules further specify that "A rallied unit cannot perform further actions during the Movement phase, and loses its opportunity to make a shooting attack in the Shooting phase, as the troops are too busy reorganising themselves after their headlong flight." By Rallying, the Random Mover already made its compulsory move.
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Post by magicjuggler on Feb 25, 2018 17:40:43 GMT
"When a creature has an ability that breaks or bends one of the main game rules, it is often represented by a special rule." RAI (since this is unfortunate Matt/Jervis plain English), this means that Special Rules override one of the core rules.
The issue then comes up: Is a Maneuver a Move?
If no, then RAW they must still move (since they "always" move in the compulsory move subphase). If yes, then the rules for Random Movement would override actually taking a Reform, and if you are found to clip a model, only then do you subsequently resolve their movement as though it were a normal charge.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 25, 2018 18:02:47 GMT
You may notice that manoeuvers and reforms are explained in the chapter called "Movement." So, there is no question that these are movements.
You are misinterpreting "always move in the Compulsory moves subphase." As such, that just means they can only make their version of a normal move in that phase. It is because the movement takes place in the Compulsory moves phase, that it has to move. By rallying, the Compulsory move was made in any case.
And as I said above, unless a special rule clearly states that it overrides another rule, it does not. The Random Movement rule does not specify that it overrules "A rallied unit cannot perform further actions during the Movement phase," therefore it does not.
To add: Similarly, one cannot argue that Random Movement units cannot flee in the charge phase (also a move), or would not be subject to any special effect that stops movement at all. In the same vein, special effects that add additional stats cannot raise them above 10, unless the special rule itself specifies it can do so.
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