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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 8, 2018 23:06:19 GMT
Thought I'd make a new topic regarding the way people add Homebrew units to the game.
My process is to peruse my various 8th Edition (and sometimes earlier) books for an existing Warhammer unit which is the closest to or an approximation of the miniature I want to add to the game (Monstrous Arcanum and Storm of Magic are great for finding templates). The existing unit I choose will match the homebrew unit in type and size. I then use that units profile and points cost as the template for my homebrew unit. From that template I tweak the homebrew units profile, abilities and points cost to match the attributes of the miniature I am adding.
I will then match the homebrew unit in my head against similar existing units to see how I feel it matches up power for points wise. If I feel my homebrew unit it too powerful I will reduce/remove something from it or increase its points until I feel it is of middling or slightly below average power. With adding Homebrew units I always try to err on the side of underpowered rather than overpowered as no one I have played ever wants to be destroyed by what they perceive to be an overpowered homebrew unit.
I'll later post an example of my process.
How do you homebrew and what is your process for creating new units and adding them to this fantastic game of ours?
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 10, 2018 8:58:36 GMT
First picture is the miniature for Homebrew/Custom rules. In this instance a monster on a chariot base. Second picture is the closest existing Warhammer unit I could find for inspiration. Third picture is the existing Warhammer unit's profile and points cost which I will use as a template and then tweak to best reflect the new unit I am adding.    |
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Post by magicjuggler on Mar 11, 2018 1:12:03 GMT
Generally, when I do ruleswriting, it tends to either be about modifying a core rule or tweak, or building a new system from scratch. However, when it comes to units, I usually tend to focus more on modifying existing units or adding options rather than creating new units whole-cloth. Generally, I analyze the unit's role in the army, if the unit is either too good or redundant, or has rules that can be easily exploited.
For example, with the Orcs and Goblins army, I feel that Savage Orcs are a badly-designed unit. Not that they're a "bad" unit, but because they are generally "better Orcs." Their Warpaint plus the Lucky Blue Paint combine to give them a 5+ Ward Save, which is already superior to armor/a potential parry, Bows are weird for what is supposed to be a "primitive" force, and Frenzy/extra attacks are generally worth the extra cost.
At the same time, Orcs lack a real "skirmish" unit, Squig Hoppers/Snotlings not particularly withstanding. So then I went for two quick hacks to make the Savage Orcs fill a more distinct niche while not being simply "better Orcs." First was to give them Skirmish, and the second was to replace their Bow option with a javelin option. Finally, I suggested that the Big Stabba would work if the unit had at least 5 models, as otherwise it was too...pointless.
Inversely, I am a fan of rules that are "standardized" or simplified. For example, I would rather make it so that Skarsnik's "Sneaky Schemes" grants Feigned Flight to all Night Goblin units (including Squig Hoppers/Heroes). That way, you avoid the current trip-up that states they only get the move/shoot if they rally after a "Flee!" reaction, and not just after any rally.
(Actually, can we discuss "core rule" design process too?)
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 11, 2018 4:01:03 GMT
Great post magicjuggler, by all means discuss anything design related.
I agree about savage orcs being 'better orcs' in a way but I personally was glad they had the bow option in the 8th Edition book. There were old metal savage Orcs miniatures released with bows so I saw the bow option as a welcome attempt by Games Workshop to not invalidate old savage orc model collections.
I also tweak existing units so am curious to hear your thoughts there and about the changes you have made/reasoning behind it.
An example of a small unit tweak my gaming group plays with is that Tomb Kings Ushabti have light armor (for a 4+ save combined with their construct rule). My reasoning for this was that
-the models have armor and in the old book rules they had armor
-Ushabti are considered underpowered/overpriced compared with other units/monstrous Infantry so a small buff isn't a bad thing
-the small armor save tweak better matches the miniatures to the rules has the additional effect of making them twice as durable save wise (5+ vs 6+) against strength 4 units such as ogre bulls and plague bearers so had a noticeable in game impact.
KevinC is the king homebrewer on this forum, having come up with entire army lists as well as great 8th Edition rules/profiles for some of the best looking Age of Sigmar miniatures. I'd love to hear of his design process.
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Post by imrillion on Mar 11, 2018 7:18:37 GMT
I'm a really fluff based/RP guy. In my circle we play campaigns a fair bit. We use campaign rules to "level up" our units to make them veterans. Then we take the veteran units from the end of the campaign and allow them to be used as rare units in future games. We've found it remains quite balanced and really makes you care about the models on the board
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Post by magicjuggler on Mar 11, 2018 12:33:41 GMT
Crunchwise, Javelins do damage based off the user's strength which can combo with Big Uns or other strength modifiers (I contemplate modifying the Big Waaagh signature to be an aura of +1 Strength, with radius dependent on casting value). Since Skirmishers can march-and-fire, a Quick to Fire weapon synergizes better, plus primitive Orcs with thrown spears feels more right. Of course, it's still proppa that unlike other Skirmishers, Savage Orcs won't be able to flee as a reaction due to Frenzy. They ain't Elves.  As for more general-purpose homebrew, I had a project I had placed on pause for Mordheim, to consolidate/streamline all the rules for mounted combat as well as to have a "Wagon VDR" of a sort where a warband could spend gold on a wagon, choosing wheels/chassis/draft animals and other specials. Were I to continue, I would probably add rules for strongholds and ships, maybe create a supporting set of campaign rules based off 3rd ed Mighty Empires. However, I put all of that on pause for a game I'm making. One thing I enjoyed about WFB compared to 40k was that it generally had more "off-turn" choice-making. You charge me, and I choose whether to Stand-And Shoot or Flee (and that's before bringing in Empire Detachments). I Flee, and you can test to redirect. You cast a spell, and I choose whether to let it though (assuming it wasn't an Irresistable one of course), to roll dice, or to burn a Scroll on it. However, the reactions are very much a "minute moving parts" scenario, so I am testing out a system where: -Each unit gets 2 actions/turn. -The game is alt activation. --A unit may do 1 or 2 actions in its activation. --An Interrupt is triggered when an enemy unit performs an action that would harm one of your units upon its execution. This lets you choose 1 of your units to do 1 action. -Both players get a pool of Strategy Points at the start of each turn which can be spent on manipulating turn order: Activating/interrupting a unit that has already taken 1 action, chain-activating your own units, and interrupting interrupts that are offensive. --Since you can interrupt interrupts, they resolve on a stack ala Magic. Place a marker next to each unit to maintain resolution order. I am hoping to use Fantasy or a permutation thereof as a baseline for testing this engine. Since it's AA and interrupted instead of phase-based, it does allow for a more organic set of player counters and unit synergies. For example, an Ogre player could have a Thundertusk charging from cover, to which the Empire player prepares Grapeshot, to which the Ogre Butcher casts Iceshard Blizzard to which an Empire Wizard prepares a Dispel Scroll, only for a Maneater to counter with some sniper rounds! Escalation and an ability to "freely counter", though eating at your actions/strategy points. |
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